Robert E. Lee, Expectations.

War Horse

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On the morning of April 9, 1865, Robert E. Lee arose from what I’m sure was a sleepless night. He dressed in his finest uniform, had Traveler saddled and embarked for the home of Wilbur McClain on what would be his finest and most noble of rides. That’s right, he departed his camp on a mission of compassion and survival for his hard ridden, exhausted and spent Army of Northern Virginia. They simply could not be expected to give another drop of blood. Lee knew their spirt was willing but their bodies could not possibly give anymore, the cause was lost. His compassion for his men lead him to the ultimate unselfish act. As he dressed that morning his thoughts had to have wandered, will I be taken into captivity? Will Grant hang me there and then? Will Grant be pragmatic as Longstreet predicted? His mission was clear, he intended to sacrifice himself for the good of the skeleton of remainder of his once glorious ANV. He could not possibly have had any expectation that this ride, his final ride as Commanding General would end in anything other than his own death. This was a noble and unselfish mission. As the world turns and every individual action and act of everything confederate is under attack. I can’t help but envision the valor of the men on both sides of the line. To me, this was an example of what a truly exceptional individual would do. Regardless of what side he was on did Robert E. Lee exemplify the qualities of an individual worthy of our admiration?
 

War Horse

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On the morning of April 9, 1865, Robert E. Lee arose from what I’m sure was a sleepless night. He dressed in his finest uniform, had Traveler saddled and embarked for the home of Wilbur McClain on what would be his finest and most noble of rides. That’s right, he departed his camp on a mission of compassion and survival for his hard ridden, exhausted and spent Army of Northern Virginia. They simply could not be expected to give another drop of blood. Lee knew their spirt was willing but their bodies could not possibly give anymore, the cause was lost. His compassion for his men lead him to the ultimate unselfish act. As he dressed that morning his thoughts had to have wandered, will I be taken into captivity? Will Grant hang me there and then? Will Grant be pragmatic as Longstreet predicted? His mission was clear, he intended to sacrifice himself for the good of the skeleton of remainder of his once glorious ANV. He could not possibly have had any expectation that this ride, his final ride as Commanding General would end in anything other than his own death. This was a noble and unselfish mission. As the world turns and every individual action and act of everything confederate is under attack. I can’t help but envision the valor of the men on both sides of the line. To me, this was an example of what a truly exceptional individual would do. Regardless of what side he was on did Robert E. Lee exemplify the qualities of an individual worthy of our admiration?
After all, to quote Lee, I’d rather die a million deaths than to do this!
 
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I think it's so interesting to contemplate this. For any man to have to confront the reality of defeat must be a bitter pill to swallow. Ulysses S. Grant knew that, too. It is well to contemplate who both these men were, but personally I can admire Lee and imagine how difficult that day must have been. He loved his country and he loved his people. He gave his all for what he believed in. He had served his country faithfully prior to the CW and quietly assumed his place in it again when the war was done. In those intervening four years of war he had operated diligently in the role he was given. From my perspective he does qualify. And from a distance he has always been admired as part of the fabric which makes up the country as a whole.
 
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I have often thoughg about Lee's remark that he had nothing left than to "go and see General Grant, and I would rather die a thousand deaths."
Mind you, he could not even say it, he did not bring himself to say "I will go and surrender my army" - no, the thought was too unfathomable, he could not even say it - but he had to do it. I really like it, @War Horse , that you see it it as an act of compassion towards his men who gave all and more. Probably not many have seen the surrender that way, but I think you hit the nail on the head.
I have often told in the forums that my interest in the Civil War started there, at Appomattox Court House, so I kind of worked myself backwards, from the beginning of the end of the Confederacy to the glorious beginning, with high hopes and boundless energy to fight for what they thought was their right. But no glorious start bears that much food for thought than these couple of hours at the end of the Army of Northern Virginia. We all know the nervousness before a visit to the doctor's who might have very bad news for us or for someone we love - multiply that with the number of men still standing plus the men who fell for their "cause" and you have what Lee must have felt. Not only for himself, but also on behalf of every starved, exhausted soldier there who had to face defeat and on behalf of every family who gave a beloved son, father, brother to a cause now lost. The end is never easy to face - much less probably if it is not just your personal end (which he must have thought it would be) but the end of the hopes of millions and the end of an era.
These last hours and the million thoughts that must have crossed Lee's mind still to me is the essence of the fascination I started to develop for your Civil War there.
 
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War Horse

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I think it's so interesting to contemplate this. For any man to have to confront the reality of defeat must be a bitter pill to swallow. Ulysses S. Grant knew that, too. It is well to contemplate who both these men were, but personally I can admire Lee and imagine how difficult that day must have been. He loved his country and he loved his people. He gave his all for what he believed in. He had served his country faithfully prior to the CW and quietly assumed his place in it again when the war was done. In those intervening four years of war he had operated diligently in the role he was given. From my perspective he does qualify. And from a distance he has always been admired as part of the fabric which makes up the country as a whole.
Very well said. I couldn’t agree more.
 
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Very well said. I couldn’t agree more.
Thank you. Your post also calls to mind how Lee prepared for the situation, knowing it was in his gift in some ways to do as he did. Lee surrendered his army with dignity. And every ounce he could muster up. His dress uniform speaks louder than words in some ways. The surrender would be dignified. Even though there is so much indignity in defeat. And in doing that he sets the example for his men as well. These are all admirable examples for me.
 

War Horse

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I have often thoughg about Lee's remark that he had nothing left than to "go and see General Grant, and I would rather die a thousand deaths."
Mind you, he could not even say it, he did not bring himself to say "I will go and surrender my army" - no, the thought was too unfathomable, he could not even say it - but he had to do it. I really like it, @War Horse , that you see it it as an act of compassion towards his men who gave all and more. Probably not many have seen the surrender that way, but I think you hit the nail on the head.
I have often told in the forums that my interest in the Civil War started there, at Appomattox Court House, so I kind of worked myself backwards, from ghe beginning of the end of the Confederacy to the glorious beginning, with high hopes and boundless energy to fight for what they thought was their right. But no glorious start bears that much food for thought than these couple of hours at the end of the Army of Northern Virginia. We all know the nervousness before a visit to the doctor's who might have very bad news for us or for someone we love - multiply that with the number of men still standing pplus the men who fell for their "cause" and you have what Lee must have felt. Not only for himself, but also on behalf of every starved, exhausted soldier there who had to face defeat and on behalf of every family who gave a beloved son, father, brother to a cause now lost. The end is never easy to face - much less probably if it is not just your personal end (which he must have thought it would be) but the end of the hopes of millions and the end of an era.
These last hours and the million thoughts that must have crossed Lee's mind still to me is the essence of the fascination I started to develop for your Civil War there.
The intrigue is real. It doesn’t matter what side you slant towards. I personally am a total unionist but I so admire the effort put forth by a doomed ideal.
 

War Horse

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Thank you. Your post also calls to mind how Lee prepared for the situation, knowing it was in his gift in some ways to do as he did. Lee surrendered his army with dignity. And every ounce he could muster up. His dress uniform speaks louder than words in some ways. The surrender would be dignified. Even though there is so much indignity in defeat. And in doing that he sets the example for his men as well. These are all admirable examples for me.
Can you imagine his surprise when Grant showed up dirty and in a privates uniform. Nowhere near as ceremonial as he must have expected. However Grant’s informality and warmth must have immediately calmed his anxiety.
 
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Can you imagine his surprise when Grant showed up dirty and in a privates uniform. Nowhere near as ceremonial as he must have expected. However Grant’s informality and warmth must have immediately calmed his anxiety.
I think Grant was 'underprepared', in the sense he had literally been 'under the weather' suffering from a migraine, and he also potentially had not foreseen Lee's decision in the moment. Grant, of course, was never one for formal military dress at the best of times and apparently the wagon carrying his dress uniform was nowhere to be found. I do think the element of unexpected informality may have calmed some of the anxiety Lee felt.

In Grant's own words:

"When I had left the camp that morning I had not expected to see so soon the result that was then taking place, and consequently was in rough garb. I was without sword, as I usually was when on horseback on the field, and wore a soldier's blouse for a coat, with the shoulder straps of my rank to indicate to the army who I was. When I went into the house I found General Lee. We greeted each other, and after shaking hands took our seats. I had my staff with me, a good portion of whom were in the room during the whole of the interview.

What General Lee's feelings were I do not know. As he was a man of much dignity, with an impassible face, it was impossible to say whether he felt inwardly glad that the end had finally come, or felt sad over the result, and was too manly to show it. Whatever his feelings, they were entirely concealed from my observation; but my own feelings, which had been quite jubilant on the receipt of his letter, were sad and depressed. I felt like anything rather than rejoicing at the downfall of a foe who had fought so long and valiantly, and had suffered so much for a cause, though that cause was, I believe, one of the worst for which a people ever fought, and one for which there was the least excuse. I do not question, however, the sincerity of the great mass of those who were opposed to us.

General Lee was dressed in a full uniform which was entirely new, and was wearing a sword of considerable value, very likely the sword which had been presented by the State of Virginia; at all events it was an entirely different sword from the one that would ordinarily be worn in the field. In my rough traveling suit, the uniform of a private with the straps of a lieutenant-general, I must have contrasted very strangely with a man so handsomely dresssed, six feet high and of faultless form. But this was not a matter that I thought of until afterwards."

The Complete Personal Memoirs of Ulysses S. Grant - pg 353

And further to Grant's situation:

He had also been feeling unwell the day before and it must have required some effort on his part to meet the occasion.

"On the 8th I had followed the Army of the Potomac in rear of Lee. I was suffering very severely with a sick headache, and stopped at a farmhouse on the road some distance in rear of the main body of the army. I spent the night in bathing my feet in hot water and mustard, and putting mustard plasters on my wrists and the back part of my neck, hoping to be cured by morning. During the night I received Lee's answer to my letter of the 8th, inviting an interview between the lines on the following morning. (Correspondence from Grant to Lee followed)

I proceeded at an early hour in the morning, still suffering with the headache, to get to the head of the column. I was not more than two or three miles from Appomattox Court House at the time, but to go direct I would have to pass through Lee's army, or a portion of it. I had therefore to move south in order to get upon a road coming up from another direction. (Correspondence from Lee to Grant received)

When the officer reached me I was still suffering with the sick headache, but the instant I saw the contents of the note I was cured." (Correspondence from Grant to Lee followed)

At this point, Grant states he had "no doubt about the good faith of Lee and pretty soon was conducted to where he was".

Grant comments on Lee's dignity, and recognizes his army fought long and valiantly in the circumstances, also acknowledging they suffered much. Giving his perspective on the cause he, at the same time, does not question their sincerity.

Given the import of the moment, it seems the matter of dress was the furthest thing from Grant's mind - "this was not a matter that I thought of until afterwards."

I think we could learn a lot from observing both these men on that day, and I could say so much more. In some ways I feel it is a defining moment in the conduct of the war and war in general. Grant felt no rejoicing and refused to humiliate Lee's men any further. This is an abject lesson in humility from Grant also. I find so much to admire about him as well. But, I'll stop there.
 
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War Horse

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I think Grant was 'underprepared', in the sense he had literally been 'under the weather' suffering from a migraine, and he also potentially had not foreseen Lee's decision in the moment. Grant, of course, was never one for formal military dress at the best of times and apparently the wagon carrying his dress uniform was nowhere to be found in the moment. I do think the element of unexpected informality may have calmed some of the anxiety Lee felt.

In Grant's own words:

"When I had left the camp that morning I had not expected to see so soon the result that was then taking place, and consequently was in rough garb. I was without sword, as I usually was when on horseback on the field, and wore a soldier's blouse for a coat, with the shoulder straps of my rank to indicate to the army who I was. When I went into the house I found General Lee. We greeted each other, and after shaking hands took our seats. I had my staff with me, a good portion of whom were in the room during the whole of the interview.

What General Lee's feelings were I do not know. As he was a man of much dignity, with an impassible face, it was impossible to say whether he felt inwardly glad that the end had finally come, or felt sad over the result, and was too manly to show it. Whatever his feelings, they were entirely concealed from my observation; but my own feelings, which had been quite jubilant on the receipt of his letter, were sad and depressed. I felt like anything rather than rejoicing at the downfall of a foe who had fought so long and valiantly, and had suffered so much for a cause, though that cause was, I believe, one of the worst for which a people ever fought, and one for which there was the least excuse. I do not question, however, the sincerity of the great mass of those who were opposed to us.

General Lee was dressed in a full uniform which was entirely new, and was wearing a sword of considerable value, very likely the sword which had been presented by the State of Virginia; at all events it was an entirely different sword from the one that would ordinarily be worn in the field. In my rough traveling suit, the uniform of a private with the straps of a lieutenant-general, I must have contrasted very strangely with a man so handsomely dresssed, six feet high and of faultless form. But this was not a matter that I thought of until afterwards."

The Complete Personal Memoirs of Ulysses S. Grant - pg 353

And further to Grant's situation:

He had also been feeling unwell the day before and it must have required some effort on his part to meet the occasion.

"On the 8th I had followed the Army of the Potomac in rear of Lee. I was suffering very severely with a sick headache, and stopped at a farmhouse on the road some distance in rear of the main body of the army. I spent the night in bathing my feet in hot water and mustard, and putting mustard plasters on my wrists and the back part of my neck, hoping to be cured by morning. During the night I received Lee's answer to my letter of the 8th, inviting an interview between the lines on the following morning. (Correspondence from Grant to Lee followed)

I proceeded at an early hour in the morning, still suffering with the headache, to get to the head of the column. I was not more than two or three miles from Appomattox Court House at the time, but to go direct I would have to pass through Lee's army, or a portion of it. I had therefore to move south in order to get upon a road coming up from another direction. (Correspondence from Lee to Grant received)

When the officer reached me I was still suffering with the sick headache, but the instant I saw the contents of the note I was cured." (Correspondence from Grant to Lee followed)

At this point, Grant states he had "no doubt about the good faith of Lee and pretty soon was conducted to where he was".

Grant comments on Lee's dignity, and recognizes his army fought long and valiantly in the circumstances, also acknowledging they suffered much. Giving his perspective on the cause he, at the same time, does not question their sincerity.

Given the import of the moment, it seems the matter of dress was the furthest thing from Grant's mind - "this was not a matter that I thought of until afterwards."

I think we could learn a lot from observing both these men in the moment, and I could say so much more. In some ways I feel it is a defining moment in the conduct of the war and war in general. Grant felt no rejoicing and refused to humiliate Lee's men any further. This is an abject lesson in humility from Grant also. I find so much to admire about him as well. But, I'll stop there.
I couldn’t agree more. Excellent post. Thank you.
 
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Even though there is so much indignity in defeat.

Here I have to respectfully disagree.

To me, there is not a bit of indignity in defeat if somebody fought as valiantly before to turn the tide as Lee and the Army of Northern Virginia did!
They were overwhelmed, they could not tap vast sources of fresh men as the Union could so they fought with their backs to the wall. There is nothing indignified in accepting that whatever you do, you cannot win anymore.

As he was a man of much dignity, with an impassible face, it was impossible to say whether he felt inwardly glad that the end had finally come,

I think we can assume for certain that "being glad" was the least thing Lee felt!I
Not only that the cause he firmly believed in (which was NOT the preservation of slavery!) was lost, it was uncertain what his surrender would mean for the Southern people! Sure Grant's terms for the ANV were generous, which could not be expected, but the Southern people as a whole suffered a lot through Reconstruction and Lee, being the brilliant mind that he was, must have pondered that in the sleepless nights before.

And on a personal level: recently we had a thread that asked who had had the most influence on Lee. Many of us agreed that it was George Washington who Lee saw as his role model. Washington fought to lead a couple of British colonies to independence and to become a great nation, the place of hope for millions of people who sought freedom, happiness and opportunity. and against all odds, against one of the greatest military powers of the time Washington succeeded in doing so. Now Lee fought to bring that same independence to the South, against a similarly overwhelming force - but he was defeated. Even his own father, full of flaws as he was, had the benefit of being regarded as a hero of the Revolution, while he, the impeccable "Marble Man" would forever be connected with the surrender and defeat. It must have been utterly hard on Lee and you don't prefer to die a thousand deaths if you are clandestinely glad that the end has come.

So, as I left out my answer to the question of the opening post: yes, Lee, who managed to live on with that burden on his mind and without giving himself to thoughts of revanchism or even enduring bitterness, definitely is worth of our admiration.
 
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I am so appreciative of your post, @FarawayFriend . The topic is open for discussion and I accept your point of disagreement.

While there may be indignity in defeat, if we take into account all the circumstances and even Grant's own words, it's possible to take the perspective you have shared. As I said, it was a dignified surrender, even if painful for those concerned.

The second part of your post is referring to Grant's musings, and once again you put forward some real food for thought. Grant could not have known that Lee felt he would prefer to die a thousand deaths, though I know of few people who would have felt differently. Perhaps Grant himself was glad the fighting had finally come to an end, although he felt no sense of rejoicing himself, and wondered if Lee felt the same. I accept there can be no real gladness in defeat.

You make interesting points about how Lee aspired to the deeds of those who went before him and how devastating it must have been for him to wear the mantle of defeat. But as you say, he wore it with dignity and without rancour, which again is worthy of admiration.
 
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Cycom

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Here I have to respectfully disagree.

To me, there is not a bit of indignity in defeat if somebody fought as valiantly before to turn the tide as Lee and the Army of Northern Virginia did!
They were overwhelmed, they could not tap vast sources of fresh men as the Union could so they fought with their backs to the wall. There is nothing indignified in accepting that whatever you do, you cannot win anymore.



I think we can assume for certain that "being glad" was the least thing Lee felt!I
Not only that the cause he firmly believed in (which was NOT the preservation of slavery!) was lost, it was uncertain what his surrender would mean for the Southern people! Sure Grant's terms for the ANV were generous, which could not be expected, but the Southern people as a whole suffered a lot through Reconstruction and Lee, being the brilliant mind that he was, must have pondered that in the sleepless nights before.

And on a personal level: recently we had a thread that asked who had had the most influence on Lee. Many of us agreed that it was George Washington who Lee saw as his role model. Washington fought to lead a couple of British colonies to independence and to become a great nation, the place of hope for millions of people who sought freedom, happiness and opportunity. and against all odds, against one of the greatest military powers of the time Washington succeeded in doing so. Now Lee fought to bring that same independence to the South, against a similarly overwhelming force - but he was defeated. Even his own father, full of flaws as he was, had the benefit of being regarded as a hero of the Revolution, while he, the impeccable "Marble Man" would forever be connected with the surrender and defeat. It must have been utterly hard on Lee and you don't prefer to die a thousand deaths if you are clandestinely glad that the end has come.

So, as I left out my answer to the question of the opening post: yes, Lee, who managed to live on with that burden on his mind and without giving himself to thoughts of revanchism or even enduring bitterness, definitely is worth of our admiration.
Very well said 👍🏼

I agree completely. He (along with his men) fought like hell, with their backs up against the wall against completely overwhelming odds, and in the end lost. No indignity to be found here, only respect!
 

Carronade

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He could not possibly have had any expectation that this ride, his final ride as Commanding General would end in anything other than his own death.

That's a bit of a stretch. No doubt he was aware of the fate that commonly awaited rebels, and willing to accept it if necessary, but that's a far cry from saying it was absolutely certain. He and Grant had discussed capitulation courteously by letter over the past couple of days. Grant had shown little sign of vindictiveness at Donelson or Vicksburg. And the final decision would be up to President Lincoln.
 
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That's a bit of a stretch. No doubt he was aware of the fate that commonly awaited rebels, and willing to accept it if necessary, but that's a far cry from saying it was absolutely certain. He and Grant had discussed capitulation courteously by letter over the past couple of days. Grant had shown little sign of vindictiveness at Donelson or Vicksburg. And the final decision would be up to President Lincoln.

Well, Lee told his staff that he expected to be taken prisoner - and once in Union hands he had to expect to be brought to Washington and tried for treason which could easily end with the death sentence. Therefore I think @War Horse was not exaggerating when he described Lee's thoughts as being gloomy and maybe even desperate.
 
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Grant had shown little sign of vindictiveness at Donelson or Vicksburg. And the final decision would be up to President Lincoln.
It is my understanding that after the assassination of Lincoln, President Johnson wanted to try Confederate leaders and it was Ulysses S. Grant who stood in his way, stating he would resign his commission if Johnson went ahead.

"Following the end of Civil War hostilities in 1865, there were many in the North who wanted the civil and military officials of the Confederacy to stand trial for treason. The assassination of Abraham Lincoln further flamed the desire of many to take vengeance upon the South and its leaders, particularly Gen. Robert E. Lee.

The New York Times was a leading proponent for treason charges against Lee, writing in a June 4, 1865 editorial: “He has ‘levied war against the United States’ more strenuously than any other man in the land, and thereby has been specially guilty of the crime of treason, as defined in the Constitution of the United States,” and “whether Gen. Lee should be hung or not, is a minor question.”

President Andrew Johnson was another advocate of harsh treatment for Lee and his generals, but he was soon to learn his views were in direct contrast to those of the North’s war hero, Gen. Ulysses S. Grant."

https://www.civilwarprofiles.com/grant-protects-lee-from-treason-trial/

Also from the link:

"When Lee, who was preparing to apply for amnesty, became aware of the indictments, he wrote Grant asking if the Appomattox terms were still in effect.

After reading Lee’s letter, Grant forwarded his own views to Secretary of War Edwin Stanton on June 16, 1865:

In my opinion the officers and men paroled at Appomattox Court-House, and since, upon the same terms given to Lee, cannot be tried for treason so long as they observe the terms of their parole. This is my understanding. Good faith, as well as true policy, dictates that we should observe the conditions of that convention. Bad faith on the part of the Government, or a construction of that convention subjecting the officers to trial for treason, would produce a feeling of insecurity in the minds of all the paroled officers and men. If so disposed they might even regard such an infraction of terms by the Government as an entire release from all obligations on their part. I will state further that the terms granted by me met with the hearty approval of the President at the time, and of the country generally. The action of Judge Underwood, in Norfolk, has already had an injurious effect, and I would ask that he be ordered to quash all indictments found against paroled prisoners of war, and to desist from further prosecution of them.

Grant also visited personally with President Johnson to discuss the situation, but was dismayed to find that Johnson fully intended to let the proceedings continue. Grant insisted the Appomattox terms be honored. Johnson asked when the men could be tried. “Never,” Grant responded, “unless they violate their paroles.”
 
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It is my understanding that after the assassination of Lincoln, President Johnson wanted to try Confederate leaders and it was Ulysses S. Grant who stood in his way, stating he would resign his commission if Johnson went ahead.

"Following the end of Civil War hostilities in 1865, there were many in the North who wanted the civil and military officials of the Confederacy to stand trial for treason. The assassination of Abraham Lincoln further flamed the desire of many to take vengeance upon the South and its leaders, particularly Gen. Robert E. Lee.

The New York Times was a leading proponent for treason charges against Lee, writing in a June 4, 1865 editorial: “He has ‘levied war against the United States’ more strenuously than any other man in the land, and thereby has been specially guilty of the crime of treason, as defined in the Constitution of the United States,” and “whether Gen. Lee should be hung or not, is a minor question.”

President Andrew Johnson was another advocate of harsh treatment for Lee and his generals, but he was soon to learn his views were in direct contrast to those of the North’s war hero, Gen. Ulysses S. Grant."

https://www.civilwarprofiles.com/grant-protects-lee-from-treason-trial/

Also from the link:

"When Lee, who was preparing to apply for amnesty, became aware of the indictments, he wrote Grant asking if the Appomattox terms were still in effect.

After reading Lee’s letter, Grant forwarded his own views to Secretary of War Edwin Stanton on June 16, 1865:

In my opinion the officers and men paroled at Appomattox Court-House, and since, upon the same terms given to Lee, cannot be tried for treason so long as they observe the terms of their parole. This is my understanding. Good faith, as well as true policy, dictates that we should observe the conditions of that convention. Bad faith on the part of the Government, or a construction of that convention subjecting the officers to trial for treason, would produce a feeling of insecurity in the minds of all the paroled officers and men. If so disposed they might even regard such an infraction of terms by the Government as an entire release from all obligations on their part. I will state further that the terms granted by me met with the hearty approval of the President at the time, and of the country generally. The action of Judge Underwood, in Norfolk, has already had an injurious effect, and I would ask that he be ordered to quash all indictments found against paroled prisoners of war, and to desist from further prosecution of them.

Grant also visited personally with President Johnson to discuss the situation, but was dismayed to find that Johnson fully intended to let the proceedings continue. Grant insisted the Appomattox terms be honored. Johnson asked when the men could be tried. “Never,” Grant responded, “unless they violate their paroles.”

Although neither Grant nor any other President who followed him in office gave Lee his citizen rights back until finally Pres. Gerald Ford did that in 1975 - more than 100 years after Lee's death.
Grant must have known how utterly humiliating it must have been for Lee to live without proper rights of citizenship. What a subtle way of punishment... and it took only 6 years until Lee's heart gave in.
 
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