Robert C Harvey of the 158th PA: Substitute or Conscript

ang709

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Oct 2, 2013
According to a muster roll for the 158th PA, my ancestor Robert C. Harvey enlisted on October 16th, 1862 and deserted on November 4th before the company even moved out. I know the most likely scenario is that he was a substitute and that he took the money and ran.

However, if he was drafted, I wondered if he deserted because of pacifist beliefs. He married a woman who's father was a Brethren Reverend, and some of her brothers were also Reverends of that faith.

I have no way to prove the second option, but I could disprove it if I find out he was a substitute. I did find a website that has information pulled from compiled service records of Franklin County, PA, and I found my ancestor on that site. Unfortunately, on his file the space for "Conscript or Substitute" was left blank. Is there somewhere else I could look?

Thank you in advance for any suggestions.
 
According to a muster roll for the 158th PA, my ancestor Robert C. Harvey enlisted on October 16th, 1862 and deserted on November 4th before the company even moved out. I know the most likely scenario is that he was a substitute and that he took the money and ran.

However, if he was drafted, I wondered if he deserted because of pacifist beliefs. He married a woman who's father was a Brethren Reverend, and some of her brothers were also Reverends of that faith.

I have no way to prove the second option, but I could disprove it if I find out he was a substitute. I did find a website that has information pulled from compiled service records of Franklin County, PA, and I found my ancestor on that site. Unfortunately, on his file the space for "Conscript or Substitute" was left blank. Is there somewhere else I could look?

Thank you in advance for any suggestions.

October 1862 was before the draft was instituted and before substitution became common so it's possible he enlisted, got his payment, and beat feet.

Ryan
 
Although it was before the draft of 1863, the 158th PA is actually listed as a drafted militia. From what I read, in 1862 a Militia Act was passed allowing a certain number of men to be drafted for nine months service. Service for the 158th was to be for nine months. This was new to me.

Maybe it's even a weird thing to wonder about, and I know it's most likely he did sub and then took the money and ran. However, if my ancestor was not a dishonest cheat, I'd like to know so I can stop having an incorrect opinion of him. And if I find out he did just show up for sub money, at least I can stop wondering.
 
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Although it was before the draft of 1863, the 158th PA is actually listed as a drafted militia. From what I read, in 1862 a Militia Act was passed allowing a certain number of men to be drafted for nine months service. Service for the 158th was to be for nine months. This was new to me.

PENNSYLVANIA
ONE HUNDRED and FIFTY-EIGHTH INFANTRY
(Nine Months)
One Hundred and Fifty-eighth Infantry. - Col., David B.
M'Kibbin; Lieut.-Col., Elias S. Troxell; Maj., Martin G. Hale.
The 158th, a militia regiment, was composed of men from the
counties of Cumberland, Franklin and Fulton, rendezvoused at
Chambersburg, and was mustered into the U. S. service Nov. 1-4,
1862, for nine months. Towards the end of November it left the
state and proceeded to Suffolk, Va., where it was assigned to
Spinola's brigade of Ferry's division. At the end of the year
it moved to New Berne, N. C., and there went into winter quar-
ters. Early in April, 1863, it participated in the operations
on the Pamlico river for the relief of the garrison at Washing-
ton, then being besieged by Gen. Hill, but was forced to return
to New Berne without raising the blockade. On April 8 it par-
ticipated in another expedition by land for the relief of the
beleaguered garrison, proceeding as far as Blount's creek,
where an artillery engagement with the enemy took place. Re-
turning to New Berne, it again started on an expedition for the
same purpose, and on April 14 skirmished with the enemy at Big
Swift creek, returning to New Berne on the 20th. The siege of
Washington was raised shortly after and the 158th was ordered
to garrison the town and fortifications. At the end of June,
it reported to Gen. Dix at Fortress Monroe and shared in the
expedition to the vicinity of Richmond. On July 11 it reported
to Gen. Meade, who was then engaged in the pursuit of Lee's
forces. Soon after it moved to Frederick, and on Aug. 8 was
ordered to Chambersburg, Pa., where it was mustered out on the
12th.


Source: The Union Army, vol. 1
 
Although it was before the draft of 1863, the 158th PA is actually listed as a drafted militia. From what I read, in 1862 a Militia Act was passed allowing a certain number of men to be drafted for nine months service. Service for the 158th was to be for nine months. This was new to me.

The 158th was a militia unit but not drafted. They were recruited with volunteers.

Ryan
 
I read a transcript of the Franklin Repository from 1863, and it states at least three times that the men of the 158th were drafted. One sentence says of the 158th: "This regiment is composed of most of the drafted men of this county". It also speaks disparagingly of the deserters saying they were most likely subs who just wanted the money.

Also, the familysearch website calls the 158th PA a drafted militia.

This is why I believed the men were drafted, but I'm a bit confused now. Both of my sources are wrong?
 
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I'm sorry if it seems I'm being argumentative. That is not my intention at all. If Robert enlisted then skipped or subbed and then skipped, that's pretty much the same to me (and either way would remove my "benefit of the doubt").

I am genuinely confused, though, about my sources. I would have thought a contemporary newspaper would have gotten it right about the men being drafted. Also, on familysearch, the listing I saw was not put there by some random online user. It is one of their official Civil War regiment history pages. I thought I could trust that.

Anyway, thank you for any clarifications.
 
I couldn't understand how a newspaper could have been so wrong about their local regiment, so I did some digging. I learned that while the draft at a federal level did not begin until 1863, some states, including PA, held their own drafts in 1862. PA began drafting in Oct (when Robert enlisted). More info about 1862 drafting here:

http://www.etymonline.com/cw/draft.htm

Also the PA State Archives says it has draft records, but only from 1862.

So I'm back to square one, except that now I know the answer may be held there.
 
Well, the 158th was organized at the right time according to that information, but I don't see them listed in the list of drafted militia that it includes from "The History of Pennsylvania Volunteers." However, the National Park Service site lists them as Drafted Militia.
 
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Two sources I've found on the PA Archives online site indicate that the 158th was indeed a drafted militia and part of the PA draft of 1862.

Here's an image of the first. According to the key on the Archives' site, the PDM after the company stands for Pennsylvania Drafted Militia.

Although it says here "Drafted with Co.", I noticed the same notation on all the cards I've looked at for this company so far. I'm not sure they marked down if someone was a substitute or not.

upload_2016-12-13_19-38-16.png


The source for that card is here: http://www.digitalarchives.state.pa...hiveID=17&FID=1213329&LID=1213378&FL=H&Page=1

The other thing I found was an enrollment book that lists the 158th as a drafted militia. Link here:
http://www.phmc.state.pa.us/bah/dam...unteers/r19-65Regt158/r19-65Regt158 pg 11.pdf

I've read that several PA newspapers printed full lists of those who were drafted in '62. Unfortunately, the Franklin Repository (which printed a list of everyone when the regiment returned in '63 and which indicated that a number of deserters had been subs who just wanted money) apparently wasn't printed in '62. So I will keep digging to see if I can learn whether Robert really was drafted or whether he was a sub. I like to have as full a picture as possible.
 
You need to distinguish between a federal draft and a draft under state militia law. These regiments started out as state militia. I've never bothered to read the details but before the 1863 federal draft Lincoln and Congress required the states through their militia system to institute a draft, under state law, to meet quotas. State law obviously varied by state and many states did make provision for substitutes, so that would require a look at PA law. States also offered bonuses just for enlisting, but had to be mustered in to receive payment.

I have asked many times how I could tell if a soldier was a substitute and I was told I would need to get a box of records from the Archives of the files of the particular draft district that was administering the draft for that soldiers home area. In this case these may be records in PA state archives. Whether you find it then is just luck, not all records were retained or have survived.

The only place I have actually seen records identifying substitutes with my own eyes is in the original mustered in roster of the regiment as a "remark" in the far right hand column. If these still exist for this regiment, a big IF, the records would be in a box of Regimental Records at the National Archives in DC.

@ang709 the phrase you are seeking is "bounty jumper." Serial bounty jumping was a profession. Men would enlist in a company not from their home district, get musteted in, collect the first installment of the bounty and then at the first opportunity skip out. They would then go to another location and do it again under another name. They could be executed if caught. Generally these men did not have families or did not plan to return to their families.

But I have doubts that was what happened here, a man couldn't do that and then return home and live comfortably surrounded by the families of other soldiers in the unit who were serving on the front lines. People actually turned in their neighbors for desertion in situations like that and put pressure on the Provost Marshal to do something about it.

I don't know how old your soldier was, and I suppose it doesn't matter, but something else happened sometimes. A young man off the farm would enlist and show up later to be mustered in and realize he just can't do it, it's all so strange, the food and living conditions are horrible and the men are rough and he might be feeling sick. If he gets out of there before he is officially mustered in, he's home free, a soldier cannot be a deserter until he is actually mustered in according to an opinion of the Attorney General in cases just like this. Enlistment does not make you a soldier, you have to be accepted and mustered in officially. There were Captains in the early days of the War who saw that sutuation differently, hence the disputes that had to be resolved by the Attorney General. So he could have been written up as a deserter when he wasn't, depending on the timing. I notice that Robert left during the muster in period which extended from Nov 1 to Nov 4. Your record from the PA archives says he was mustered in on Nov 4 and deserted on Nov 6. Was he mustered in for real, did he receive cash in hand? I wonder.

So for further investigation:

-- what kind of a bonus was it and did he actually get the payment in hand? Most bonuses for enlistment were paid in installments to encourage service of a full term. Payments for substitutes were different, a different amount of money usually and the draftee seeking the substitute could pay more.

-- Is he on the first official muster roll?

-- Where did he go when he left the regiment? Home? I don't think if I was a draftee who deserted I would think it safe to go home. If he returned home. If he went home it must have been under circumstances that he thought were excusable.

-- Do you have his Carded Compiled Service Record? If not, you need to get it with any carded medical records from the National Archives in DC. The service record will record any bounty paid. My understanding is that the bounty jumpers had to stick around a little longer for their scheme to work.

Let us know what you discover:smile:
 
I looked up Robert C Harvey in the National Parks Service Soldiers and Sailors Database and they have him serving his term and mustered out.

https://www.nps.gov/civilwar/search...oldierId=A6A31DA6-DC7A-DF11-BF36-B8AC6F5D926A


They also have a Robert C Harvey enlisting in another regiment afterwards.

Sometimes deserters returned to their regiments and were allow to stay or were captured and informed of the consequences of desertion and elected to stay with the regiment. Or this could be a messed up record in the PA system. The NPS records are taken from the Compiled Carded Civil War Service Records which are digests of the original records made by the War Department in the 1880's-90's.

The other regiment in which Robert C Harvey served is Co I of the 198 th PA Inf.

https://www.nps.gov/civilwar/search...oldierId=A7A31DA6-DC7A-DF11-BF36-B8AC6F5D926A

Hope this is your man.
 
You need to distinguish between a federal draft and a draft under state militia law. These regiments started out as state militia. I've never bothered to read the details but before the 1863 federal draft Lincoln and Congress required the states through their militia system to institute a draft, under state law, to meet quotas. State law obviously varied by state and many states did make provision for substitutes, so that would require a look at PA law. States also offered bonuses just for enlisting, but had to be mustered in to receive payment.

I have asked many times how I could tell if a soldier was a substitute and I was told I would need to get a box of records from the Archives of the files of the particular draft district that was administering the draft for that soldiers home area. In this case these may be records in PA state archives. Whether you find it then is just luck, not all records were retained or have survived.

The only place I have actually seen records identifying substitutes with my own eyes is in the original mustered in roster of the regiment as a "remark" in the far right hand column. If these still exist for this regiment, a big IF, the records would be in a box of Regimental Records at the National Archives in DC.

@ang709 the phrase you are seeking is "bounty jumper." Serial bounty jumping was a profession. Men would enlist in a company not from their home district, get musteted in, collect the first installment of the bounty and then at the first opportunity skip out. They would then go to another location and do it again under another name. They could be executed if caught. Generally these men did not have families or did not plan to return to their families.

But I have doubts that was what happened here, a man couldn't do that and then return home and live comfortably surrounded by the families of other soldiers in the unit who were serving on the front lines. People actually turned in their neighbors for desertion in situations like that and put pressure on the Provost Marshal to do something about it.

I don't know how old your soldier was, and I suppose it doesn't matter, but something else happened sometimes. A young man off the farm would enlist and show up later to be mustered in and realize he just can't do it, it's all so strange, the food and living conditions are horrible and the men are rough and he might be feeling sick. If he gets out of there before he is officially mustered in, he's home free, a soldier cannot be a deserter until he is actually mustered in according to an opinion of the Attorney General in cases just like this. Enlistment does not make you a soldier, you have to be accepted and mustered in officially. There were Captains in the early days of the War who saw that sutuation differently, hence the disputes that had to be resolved by the Attorney General. So he could have been written up as a deserter when he wasn't, depending on the timing. I notice that Robert left during the muster in period which extended from Nov 1 to Nov 4. Your record from the PA archives says he was mustered in on Nov 4 and deserted on Nov 6. Was he mustered in for real, did he receive cash in hand? I wonder.

So for further investigation:

-- what kind of a bonus was it and did he actually get the payment in hand? Most bonuses for enlistment were paid in installments to encourage service of a full term. Payments for substitutes were different, a different amount of money usually and the draftee seeking the substitute could pay more.

-- Is he on the first official muster roll?

-- Where did he go when he left the regiment? Home? I don't think if I was a draftee who deserted I would think it safe to go home. If he returned home. If he went home it must have been under circumstances that he thought were excusable.

-- Do you have his Carded Compiled Service Record? If not, you need to get it with any carded medical records from the National Archives in DC. The service record will record any bounty paid. My understanding is that the bounty jumpers had to stick around a little longer for their scheme to work.

Let us know what you discover:smile:

Where would I find the first official muster roll? I've seen the muster-out roll on Ancestry. It lists Robert in the deserters column and states his date of desertion as November 6th. It also has a column that says "Amount for clothing in kind, or in money advanced". For Robert the amount listed is $2.95. Some of the other deserters got $25.74. Would that have been part of an enlistment bonus?

Before the war Robert lived in Fannett Township, Franklin County. In about 1864 he got married to a woman who was originally from Fannett Township but who'd moved away by 1860. I presume from that time at least he was living in Dauphin County. In 1870 he was for sure in Dauphin County according to the census. So he did move two counties away from his home, but I don't know if it's reason for suspicion or not.

Robert's father-in-law and brothers-in-law were of the Brethren faith. It doesn't seem that was the background of his mother-in-law, though, as at least one of her nephews (Wilson Piper) served his full term in the 158th.

I'm planning my first visit to the National Archives in January, but I hadn't thought to have Robert's Compiled Service Record pulled, as I didn't think there'd be anything in it given his early desertion. I did see the information pulled from it that's recorded at this link:

http://valley.lib.virginia.edu/dossier_record?q=db:dossiers_franklin AND id_num:4205

I can't say one way or the other whether he was the same Robert C. as the one in the 198th, though I would've thought Philadelphia would've been far for him to go to enlist. My ancestor was born in 1838 (and was 24 when drafted). I couldn't find any kind of information like that for the Robert in the 198th. I found an index card with his name and unit but nothing more.

One more note about my Robert: His older brother John and his younger brother William both served there full terms in the 158th.

I'm hoping in the future to also get to the PA archives. I'm still in the process of figuring out what they have and what I want to look for there. They say they have a "descriptive" list of deserters, and I do plan to check that out.
 
Have the service records for both Robert C Harvey's pulled in DC along with the Carded Medical Records for both of them and the pension file for Robert C Harvey who served in the 198th, which is likely to include information abut his family. After doing that you should know if they are two different men. And you might know what happened to your Robert C Harvey.

I've read a lot of pension files and the Pension Bureau did a very good job of researching pension applicants and listing all of their units of service on their pension cards. This pension card for Robert C Harvey of 198th PA does not name the other unit, possibly a tip off that these are two different men.

I'm finding the status of the 158th PA interesting because both the state militia system and the US Army are involved with this unit. So are these state records or federal records? In the early days of the War, the state militia system supplied state created regiments to the War and if their term of enlistment hadn't expired first, at some point all these units were "federalized", leaving the state out of the picture except to fulfill draft quotas. So who kept records for this unit? Always the Union Army? Or initially the state and then the US Army? Usually when a state unit with a short term of enlistment was federalized, that term of enlistment was lengthened, but not in this case, if that's what happened here. I know that the Army did not like units made up solely of draftees, men who were only there by compulsion, because of disciplinary and morale problems, just as they don't want a draft today except in extreme circumstances.

Draftees didn't receive bounties at enlistment, the whole point of the bounty was to encourage volunteers. If that muster out form you have doesn't mention a bounty payment, he didn't get one. Do you have a photo image of that muster out document you would be willing to share? I would like to see what it might tell me that I wouldn't think to ask.

I'm finding it very hard to believe that three brothers joined this regiment and one of them deserted and took off with a bounty. I don't see how that could have happened and the soldier went on to live his life later on, Eben if just 2 counties away. Also heavily weighing against this scenario is the federal record summarized on the NPS database which shows him mustered out and not deserted.

I wouldn't know if this comes into play, but records of desertion could be appealed many years later in the pension application process and reversed. That's how the Opinion of the Attorney General came about that an enlisted soldier who was never formally mustered in (I think an oath was involved in that process) can leave camp and he is not a deserter.

So theoretically that could have happened here. Just playing it out that theory: Robert C Harvey is drafted, he either gets mustered in or he doesn't, but he shows up in camp and then leaves. He is recorded as a deserter. He later joins the 198th PA as a volunteer and serves honorably receiving the rank of Corporal. He doesn't know he is listed as a deserter in the 158th. He applies for a pension, the Bureau finds his previous enlistment with the desertion, the pension is denied and his lawyer (successful pension applicants needed lawyers, it was a corrupt system) challenged the denial and won a reversal of the discharge. I have seen a very similar scenario.

You haven't been to the Archives before? I want to give you some tips. As to finding that box of Regimental Records, and I remind you this is a very long shot, you go to the Consultation room, go to the staffer at the Army desk in the back and say you want to see the Regimental Records of the 158th PA, if any. He/she should take you to the outer rooms and pull a book off the shelf which you can search for an entry for Regimental Record of the 158th PA and then you use the description in that entry to fill out a call slip for those records. The experience of staff at that desk varies. I know a couple of staffers who would know how to find these records and a couple who probably don't. Staff rotates in snd out on shifts so you might try another person another day or later in the day if you don't get the response I described.

These are raw unorganized records and there could be a number of boxes, sometimes the records are described by feet of shelf space they take up in storage. You have to search through the pages to see what's there. Get everything you can out of the service records and pension files and all other records first, you may not need to attempt this.

According to the Civil War 1863 Draft Enrollment records on Ancestry, Robert Harvey age 23, resident of Fennett Township, Franklin County PA was single and there was no listing of prior service. His enrolment is listed beneath that of John Harvey who is noted as having 9 months service (probably in the 158th). Below them is a Joseph Harvey. I did not see the other brother you mentioned. Perhaps he didn't live in that district any longer in 1863.

The Civil War Service Records followed by the pension records and Carded CW Medical records if you are lucky enough to have those, are the basic essentials for researching any Civil War soldier. For an example of a set of Civil War service records (not all are online yet), go to Ancestry or fold3 in your library if you're not a subscriber, and read an example of a file of Carded Compiled Civil War service records. On Ancestry oyou might try looking up Enos B Wood, 2nd United States Colored Cavalry (USCC), or you can look at any soldier serving in the US Colored Troops (these service records are supposed to be free online). These records were abstracted from the Regimental Records kept by the unit of periodic roll calls, assignments to detached duty, hospitalizations, wounds or injury on the battlefield or in camp, changes in rank, furloughs, AOWL (absences without leave) and desertion, pay due and paid, bounty due and paid, charges against the soldiers account, death, date of enrollment, muster in and muster out, etc. Sometimes a copy of the enlistment agreement or casualty report, furlough pass, etc. is included. At other times, corrections made to the record during the pension process are noted in red. On the jacket of the record at the bottom under "Bookmarks" are notations to other relevant Army files. Do not let these references go unexplored. Take a photo of the record on your phone or pay for a photocopy and go downstairs and show it to the person at the Army desk in the Consultation room and find out what it is and have it pulled. These can be court martials or other disciplinary matters, Special Orders affecting this soldier, or other items of interest. On the right hand side of the inside of the jacket when opened, are ink or pencil notations of correspondence concerning this file. If such a notation says PO it's with the Pension Office and should be in a pension file. Otherwise, you might want to find it.

Don't get hung up on a specific year of birth for your subject. I have never researched anyone in the 19th century whose birthdate as recorded in census, military, burial and marriage records and death certificate didn't vary. These were the days before there were government records of birth. I was just reading the Civil War diary of a very literate woman who worked for the Abolitionist cause in Washington. She came from a highly literate family and had a mother who died when she was 10, a father and nine brothers and sisters. As she wrote in the Diary on her birthday in her 50's, she remarks that she doesn't know if she was born in one year or the next and so doesn't really know how old she is that day. Despite having a father and 7 brothers and sisters living, she says "nobody knows".

Note that in Robert Harvey's case he is 24 when enlisted in 1862 but in the draft registration a year and a half later he is 23. When records are made there is always potential for clerical error and mistranscription when someone else's handwritten record is being copied. And we don't know who the informant was, it could have been anyone in the household or a neighbor or the creator of the record could have thought they knew the person and knew all the requested information.

I'm going to send you via that conversation I opened earlier (see your Inbox) some practical tips for visiting the Archives. You will request the documents you want there, don't pay to have anything pulled in advance.

I look forward to learning the whole story here. I love solving puzzles.

Don't worry about Robert going from Franklin to Philly to enlist. It's not like he had to cross the Allegheny mountains. In this time period there was water, stage coach and railroad travel and people got around. With Robert's name on the 1863 draft enrollment list he was aware he could be drafted in 1864 when there was a great press for more soldiers. He would have been smart to volunteer this time, not get drafted, get a bounty , sometimes a pretty large one, and perhaps serve with friends who were doing the same thing.

I'm getting more and more convinced that Robert did not know he was listed as a deserter. What could have happened is that he was only 20 when he enlisted and would have needed his parent's consent but didn't have it, another reason that record of desertion could have been challenged at a later date, even if he had lied about his age
 
A militia draft does not mean that all the men were individually conscripted. If a man was a member of a militia company before it was "called up" ('drafted'), he might, in a sense, be said to have been -- though it is really his company as a unit that was 'drafted'. But, if the company was not up to strength (few were), they would fill up the ranks with volunteers. He may have been one of the latter: a volunteer in a drafted unit. I suspect that his Service Record will clear this all up. Check out the MSR for the other Robert C., too

BTW, a recruit 18 years old or more could enlist without parental permission.
 
Thanks John Hartwell. Don't know about the state militia but there is a thread here about Marion Patterson who got out of a federalized NY state unit after serving for a while because he was 20 when he enlisted without parental consent. See the Thread "My First Question: Discharge by reason of Minority" posted by MajMarionPatterson I do recall that 18 was supposed to be the minimum age for federal service. And they say there was a high percentage of soldiers younger than 18, actually two in my own family, so I'm guessing these things weren't enforced unless it became an issue.
 
Actually @John Hartwell I'm finding conflicting authority all over the lot on this. The first federal draft law required the states to register all men 18 and up to the maximum age, whatever that was, in the state militia and then for the militia units to be on call for federal service. This sounds like what you were talking about. The law seems inconsistent with a requirement of parental consent for any one under 21. Then in the federal draft law of 1863, every male age 20 and over to the maximum age was required to register for the draft, meaning they weren't drafting 18 year olds. Then there are the official papers in Marion Patterson's case where he joined a NY state unit that was later federalized and its term was extended beyond the enlistment term promised when the men joined up. Marion got out of the extended term because he had joined at 20 without parental consent. I have some Enlistment Agreements around if I can find them. I know there is a space for parental consent. I wonder what they say.

Then there is the question of why this 158th PA regiment was called "Draftees" in the PA records. If it was an existing militia unit that was just called up federally, I don't think it would have that special designation.

In any case I doubt that being underage was the issue for Robert C Harvey, it was probably something else.
 
I just came across this thread....

The first thing that popped in my head was this sounds like one of the State (Pa.) militia units that were recruited right before Antietam. Remember: John Reynolds gets pulled from command just days before Antietam...and sent to Pennsylvania to RECRUIT and command a back up force of strictly 'state militia' in case they are needed somehow, someway after Antietam. (When coming back to the Federal Army, Meade asked Reynolds what his opinion of the hastily gathered militia was 'Be glad you did not have to use them'....he told Meade)

Yes...the documented dates, do not match up....they rarely do for ANY unit...especially Pennsylvania.

A perfect example being 'The Pennsylvania Reserves'...they had 2 unit designations. The particular unit I follow was the 7th reserves....their federal designation was the '36th US Infantry'...but the Pennsylvania boys always referred to themselves by their state 'reserve' designation out of pride (Yes, we're the 36th US infantry...but call us the Pa. 7th Reserves...or I'll knock your block off!)

As far as the dates go....you could...and they did, put any date down that made the paperwork go...the 7th was recruited in May of '61....went to Harrisburg in June,...were turned away...stayed to drill as state militia....hurriedly accepted by the Feds after Bull Run, and sworn in as the 36th, in late July '61....and this is assuming a soldier was lucky enough to have all of this properly documented in their records.....good luck!...the opposite was much more likely...

When we go digging in these records...we see the cleaned up pile...not the original nightmare of a mess the paperwork actually was...My point out of all this is: don't invest so much trust in these dates you find in the records...use them as a guideline...not etched in stone...

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Your advice about not taking the dates too seriously in the PA records is duly noted and will certainly be given much credence by me.

I'm thrilled to see that federal 1865 substitute's enlistment agreement! I didn't know they existed. I wish the Carded Compiled Civil War Service Records had noted which soldiers were substitutes but I don't believe they did.

I see the certification that the enlisted man was "of lawful age (not under 18 years)". And there appears to be no parental consent clause on this form. Is using 18 as lawful age for the federal military requiring no parental consent perhaps something that developed by law after the federal enlistment process replaced their use of the state militia system? I would love to see the actual statutes involved and the date they became law. Possibly a new law was created at some point to clarify that soldiers at 18 could be enlisted without parental consent. Marion Patterson secured his discharge for minority in Aug. 1861, very early in the development of the Union military apparatus ultimately created by Congress during the War.
 
Have the service records for both Robert C Harvey's pulled in DC along with the Carded Medical Records for both of them and the pension file for Robert C Harvey who served in the 198th, which is likely to include information abut his family. After doing that you should know if they are two different men. And you might know what happened to your Robert C Harvey.

I've read a lot of pension files and the Pension Bureau did a very good job of researching pension applicants and listing all of their units of service on their pension cards. This pension card for Robert C Harvey of 198th PA does not name the other unit, possibly a tip off that these are two different men.

I'm finding the status of the 158th PA interesting because both the state militia system and the US Army are involved with this unit. So are these state records or federal records? In the early days of the War, the state militia system supplied state created regiments to the War and if their term of enlistment hadn't expired first, at some point all these units were "federalized", leaving the state out of the picture except to fulfill draft quotas. So who kept records for this unit? Always the Union Army? Or initially the state and then the US Army? Usually when a state unit with a short term of enlistment was federalized, that term of enlistment was lengthened, but not in this case, if that's what happened here. I know that the Army did not like units made up solely of draftees, men who were only there by compulsion, because of disciplinary and morale problems, just as they don't want a draft today except in extreme circumstances.

Draftees didn't receive bounties at enlistment, the whole point of the bounty was to encourage volunteers. If that muster out form you have doesn't mention a bounty payment, he didn't get one. Do you have a photo image of that muster out document you would be willing to share? I would like to see what it might tell me that I wouldn't think to ask.

I'm finding it very hard to believe that three brothers joined this regiment and one of them deserted and took off with a bounty. I don't see how that could have happened and the soldier went on to live his life later on, Eben if just 2 counties away. Also heavily weighing against this scenario is the federal record summarized on the NPS database which shows him mustered out and not deserted.

I wouldn't know if this comes into play, but records of desertion could be appealed many years later in the pension application process and reversed. That's how the Opinion of the Attorney General came about that an enlisted soldier who was never formally mustered in (I think an oath was involved in that process) can leave camp and he is not a deserter.

So theoretically that could have happened here. Just playing it out that theory: Robert C Harvey is drafted, he either gets mustered in or he doesn't, but he shows up in camp and then leaves. He is recorded as a deserter. He later joins the 198th PA as a volunteer and serves honorably receiving the rank of Corporal. He doesn't know he is listed as a deserter in the 158th. He applies for a pension, the Bureau finds his previous enlistment with the desertion, the pension is denied and his lawyer (successful pension applicants needed lawyers, it was a corrupt system) challenged the denial and won a reversal of the discharge. I have seen a very similar scenario.

You haven't been to the Archives before? I want to give you some tips. As to finding that box of Regimental Records, and I remind you this is a very long shot, you go to the Consultation room, go to the staffer at the Army desk in the back and say you want to see the Regimental Records of the 158th PA, if any. He/she should take you to the outer rooms and pull a book off the shelf which you can search for an entry for Regimental Record of the 158th PA and then you use the description in that entry to fill out a call slip for those records. The experience of staff at that desk varies. I know a couple of staffers who would know how to find these records and a couple who probably don't. Staff rotates in snd out on shifts so you might try another person another day or later in the day if you don't get the response I described.

These are raw unorganized records and there could be a number of boxes, sometimes the records are described by feet of shelf space they take up in storage. You have to search through the pages to see what's there. Get everything you can out of the service records and pension files and all other records first, you may not need to attempt this.

According to the Civil War 1863 Draft Enrollment records on Ancestry, Robert Harvey age 23, resident of Fennett Township, Franklin County PA was single and there was no listing of prior service. His enrolment is listed beneath that of John Harvey who is noted as having 9 months service (probably in the 158th). Below them is a Joseph Harvey. I did not see the other brother you mentioned. Perhaps he didn't live in that district any longer in 1863.

The Civil War Service Records followed by the pension records and Carded CW Medical records if you are lucky enough to have those, are the basic essentials for researching any Civil War soldier. For an example of a set of Civil War service records (not all are online yet), go to Ancestry or fold3 in your library if you're not a subscriber, and read an example of a file of Carded Compiled Civil War service records. On Ancestry oyou might try looking up Enos B Wood, 2nd United States Colored Cavalry (USCC), or you can look at any soldier serving in the US Colored Troops (these service records are supposed to be free online). These records were abstracted from the Regimental Records kept by the unit of periodic roll calls, assignments to detached duty, hospitalizations, wounds or injury on the battlefield or in camp, changes in rank, furloughs, AOWL (absences without leave) and desertion, pay due and paid, bounty due and paid, charges against the soldiers account, death, date of enrollment, muster in and muster out, etc. Sometimes a copy of the enlistment agreement or casualty report, furlough pass, etc. is included. At other times, corrections made to the record during the pension process are noted in red. On the jacket of the record at the bottom under "Bookmarks" are notations to other relevant Army files. Do not let these references go unexplored. Take a photo of the record on your phone or pay for a photocopy and go downstairs and show it to the person at the Army desk in the Consultation room and find out what it is and have it pulled. These can be court martials or other disciplinary matters, Special Orders affecting this soldier, or other items of interest. On the right hand side of the inside of the jacket when opened, are ink or pencil notations of correspondence concerning this file. If such a notation says PO it's with the Pension Office and should be in a pension file. Otherwise, you might want to find it.

Don't get hung up on a specific year of birth for your subject. I have never researched anyone in the 19th century whose birthdate as recorded in census, military, burial and marriage records and death certificate didn't vary. These were the days before there were government records of birth. I was just reading the Civil War diary of a very literate woman who worked for the Abolitionist cause in Washington. She came from a highly literate family and had a mother who died when she was 10, a father and nine brothers and sisters. As she wrote in the Diary on her birthday in her 50's, she remarks that she doesn't know if she was born in one year or the next and so doesn't really know how old she is that day. Despite having a father and 7 brothers and sisters living, she says "nobody knows".

Note that in Robert Harvey's case he is 24 when enlisted in 1862 but in the draft registration a year and a half later he is 23. When records are made there is always potential for clerical error and mistranscription when someone else's handwritten record is being copied. And we don't know who the informant was, it could have been anyone in the household or a neighbor or the creator of the record could have thought they knew the person and knew all the requested information.

I'm going to send you via that conversation I opened earlier (see your Inbox) some practical tips for visiting the Archives. You will request the documents you want there, don't pay to have anything pulled in advance.

I look forward to learning the whole story here. I love solving puzzles.

Don't worry about Robert going from Franklin to Philly to enlist. It's not like he had to cross the Allegheny mountains. In this time period there was water, stage coach and railroad travel and people got around. With Robert's name on the 1863 draft enrollment list he was aware he could be drafted in 1864 when there was a great press for more soldiers. He would have been smart to volunteer this time, not get drafted, get a bounty , sometimes a pretty large one, and perhaps serve with friends who were doing the same thing.

I'm getting more and more convinced that Robert did not know he was listed as a deserter. What could have happened is that he was only 20 when he enlisted and would have needed his parent's consent but didn't have it, another reason that record of desertion could have been challenged at a later date, even if he had lied about his age

I will request all the records on both Robert C Harveys and see what I find out. I will also ask about any regimental records.

I don't know where William Harvey went when his term ended in 1863. I have him listed on the muster out roll, but I couldn't find any record of him after that until the 1880 census, at which point he was living in Cumberland County. This is William's Card File from his time with the 158th:
3830.gif


And older brother John C's File:
3702.gif


Images from the PA digital archives at the following links:
http://www.digitalarchives.state.pa...hiveID=17&FID=1213379&LID=1213428&FL=H&Page=0
http://www.digitalarchives.state.pa...ems&ArchiveID=17&FL=H&FID=1213229&LID=1213278

I will definitely share anything I find at the Archives and any questions I think of between now and then.
 
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