Restricted Richmond weighs over 20 offers for statues

Quaama

Sergeant
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Sep 13, 2020
Location
Port Macquarie, Australia
My reading of the Letter Opinion is that:
the covenants in the Deed (specifically the need to "hold said Statue and pedestal and Circle of ground perpetually sacred to the Monumental purpose to which they have been devoted and that she will faithfully guard it and affectionately protect it” are enforceable; but
"conditions have so radically changed as to practically destroy the original purposes of the covenant" (and then cites legal precedence in that regard).

Seems like silence is acquiescence. The noisy protesters have been heard and those elected officials who made laws to remove that statue and others must be confirmed by that Court. Should the decision hold on appeal and new monuments or statues be erected in their place it would seem that should public opinion change in the future they can also be removed.

I could see nothing in the Letter Opinion that gave me any insight as to who owns the statue and all that stands upon it but I'm thinking the State (it's just the purpose for its original gifting is now null and void).
 

Viper21

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Rockbridge County, Virginia

I saw this coming based on the date the judge decided to have his ruling. He had already decided months ago. If he was going to vote against Northam he would have waited until after the first week of November.

It will go to the state Supreme Court. But, my gut tells me only the President using his federal monument powers could save it at this point. My gut also tells me Virginia history before the 20th century including the battlefields will be gone on the current course.
My understanding is, the case was dismissed but, the injunction (preventing removal) is still in place until the appeal is heard. It is also my understanding that, the appeal won't be heard until next year.
 

PapaReb

First Sergeant
Joined
Feb 9, 2020
Location
Arkansas CSA occupied
My understanding is, the case was dismissed but, the injunction (preventing removal) is still in place until the appeal is heard. It is also my understanding that, the appeal won't be heard until next year.
If true, that might give something of a "cooling off" period. The results of this election year will either grant impetus to the movement or a cessation of it's overt actions, my opinion only, others mileage may vary.
 

Quaama

Sergeant
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Sep 13, 2020
Location
Port Macquarie, Australia
My understanding is, the case was dismissed but, the injunction (preventing removal) is still in place until the appeal is heard. It is also my understanding that, the appeal won't be heard until next year.

The Letter Opinion October 27, 2020 says at the end:
"the temporary injunction [on removing the statue] ... is hereby dissolved effective immediately ... [and] the Court Orders the suspension of any execution of the Judgment Order pending the resolution of a properly perfected appeal ..."

A lot can happen between now and next year.
 

jcaesar

Private
Joined
Aug 28, 2020
My understanding is, the case was dismissed but, the injunction (preventing removal) is still in place until the appeal is heard. It is also my understanding that, the appeal won't be heard until next year.

That is my understanding as well outside of knowing when the case will be heard. The longer the distance in time from the first week of November the better.

Though after the first week of November for those who want to preserve history in its many forms around the country they are going to have to actually start to speak out and organize their arguments on the topic.
 

1950lemans

First Sergeant
Joined
Jun 23, 2013
Location
Connecticut
After reading the article I feel very confident that all the parties involved will work out a good plan for the disbursement of these historic pieces. I think they will come up with a plan that will satisfy everyone ALMOST completely but not FULLY. Usually that's the best kind of business deal.
 

Desert Kid

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Location
Arizona
Not certain that the POTUS would have jurisdiction for a monument owned and erected on State owned property unless there would some means by which he could declare it a Federal Monument by some sort of Executive Action, but then I believe that would be declared unconstitutional and eventually be struck down by the Supreme Court.

I simply do not understand why the State of Virginia (and other States also) will not put the fate of the monuments and statues to a popular vote. Let the whole of the people speak, not just ones who scream and destroy at their own whim.

It's simple. Look to the state of Mississippi and it's flag. Since 2001, and repeatedly up until this summer the majority of voters in that state said "no" to any changes. But the second big corporations threaten the state's politicians, they bypass the 2001 vote, call it non binding and force the flag down anyway.

Any vote that doesn't go the way the establishment wants, will be bypassed, and discarded and the symbols will come down anyway. That is the result of any vote that could happen in Virginia. The NoVAcrats will flex their economic muscle, and even the state's Republicans will do nothing to stop them on the issue.

A vote will accomplish nothing.
 

Quaama

Sergeant
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Location
Port Macquarie, Australia

If the statue is to be saved then I think people need to speak up in support of it.
The Judge's Letter Opinion accepted that:
the covenants in the Deed (specifically the need to "hold said Statue and pedestal and Circle of ground perpetually sacred to the Monumental purpose to which they have been devoted and that she will faithfully guard it and affectionately protect it” are enforceable; but
"conditions have so radically changed as to practically destroy the original purposes of the covenant" (and then cites legal precedence in that regard).

All that has been seen is many people protesting to have that statue, and others, removed. That, in part shows that "conditions have so radically changed" to enable Judges to determine that the covenants in the deed are no longer legally enforceable.
If, however, there are large numbers of people protesting in support of the statue it will be more difficult to legally show that conditions have radically changed. That could enable the covenant to be enforced and the statue then must be guarded and affectionately protected.
In the Court, silence on one side of the argument will be regarded as acquiescence to other other side's argument.
 

Pete Longstreet

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Location
Hartford, CT
Do any of my southern friends know where these statues are being stored? And if they will be available for viewing at a later date? Before all of this blew up, I had plans to visit monument Ave and some battlefields. Then the world fell apart and I canceled my trip. In 2019 I told myself "next year I'm making the trip south". What a great year I picked to go see Confederate monuments for the first time...
 

jcaesar

Private
Joined
Aug 28, 2020
Do any of my southern friends know where these statues are being stored? And if they will be available for viewing at a later date? Before all of this blew up, I had plans to visit monument Ave and some battlefields. Then the world fell apart and I canceled my trip. In 2019 I told myself "next year I'm making the trip south". What a great year I picked to go see Confederate monuments for the first time...

They dumped them at a wastewater treatment plant.
 

PapaReb

First Sergeant
Joined
Feb 9, 2020
Location
Arkansas CSA occupied
Do any of my southern friends know where these statues are being stored? And if they will be available for viewing at a later date? Before all of this blew up, I had plans to visit monument Ave and some battlefields. Then the world fell apart and I canceled my trip. In 2019 I told myself "next year I'm making the trip south". What a great year I picked to go see Confederate monuments for the first time...
Still laying on the ground covered with tarps at a waste water plant last I heard. As for being available for viewing at a later date? Who knows. Once they have driven us all crazy and confined us to asylums, maybe we can draw you pictures of them with our crayons.

Saddens me that I too will never get to see them now, at least not on monument avenue where they should be.
 

Quaama

Sergeant
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Location
Port Macquarie, Australia
Surely evidence such as actual ballots in other places within Virginia (over whether or not statues should be removed as made known to me by this CWT Thread) would be regarded as evidence that it is not the case that "conditions have so radically changed as to practically destroy the original purposes of the covenant" allowing the covenant in the deed to be voided.
 
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