Retrieved 21: Scope of Inquiry: Literature From 1860-1861 or From 1830-1861?

Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

James Lutzweiler

Sergeant Major
Joined
Mar 14, 2018
Messages
1,816
My Fellow Posters,

I pose a simple question here.

In the search for some kind of proportionate percentages of the several acknowledged different and total ingredients in the recipe for Secession and the Civil War, a/k/a "The War of Southern Aggression," what should be the scope of inquiry: Only literature from 1860-1861 or all the literature from 1830-1861?

Note: This is NOT a resurrection of the dispute itself over Civil War causation. Please address the dates and whether or not you feel that choosing only 1860-1861 is an exercise in literary cherrypicking, somewhat tendentiously and exclusively to support a view of admittedly unrequited cottonpicking as the primary cause of the War.

James Lutzweiler
Archivist (1999-2013)
Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary
Wake Forest, NC
 

uaskme

Sergeant Major
Joined
Nov 9, 2016
Messages
2,394
I read Horseman's stand alone book on the MO Compromise. I think an analysis of the MO Comp is important. Most Historians gloss over it, of course the Slavery angle. However it was more Political and about Slavery.

Most that event, the action heats up in the 30s. Nullification Crisis. Then Nat Turner and soon after the rise of the Garrisons, which was the first Threat to Slavery, and the Southern Response. Then all of the other events that follow, I won't list them all. However, I don't think you can understand Secession, if you don't study this period.

As far as the 60 to 61 period. The way I look at it. If I was going to eat the buffet and run out, without paying. I probably wouldn't tell in advance my intentions. Also, if I would run out, without paying, I would not intended to go back there. Also, most countries don't announce what there Foreign Policy intentions, and especially what Battle Plans they might have. So, if you were doing so, Would you broadcast to the other side, your specific plans. I don't think a Smart Country would do so.

Also the Railroads began development, in the 30s. Railroads, faster Ships and finally the Steam Ships will have a larger impact, leading up to the Civil War.

Thanks for starting this thread,
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

ebg12

Corporal
Joined
Feb 28, 2019
Messages
444
How can you leave Uncle Tom's Cabin Out? Our Lincoln Douglas Debate?
 

OpnCoronet

Lt. Colonel
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
Messages
10,591
Myself, I think study should go back at least to the Constitutional debates To 1866. With particular attention to the Compromise of 1820, the Compromise of 1850 and the splitting up of the Democratic Party in 1860.
 

James Lutzweiler

Sergeant Major
Joined
Mar 14, 2018
Messages
1,816
I believe one is more qualified at knowledge by admitting the broader scope, 1830-1861.
Thanks, Lubliner.
I believe one is more qualified at knowledge by admitting the broader scope, 1830-1861.
Thanks, Lubliner.
Welcome to the thread. Would you like your jersey to have #2 Plutopicker on it? I would hope to build a team to do intellectual combat, not nasty combat, with those whom I view not the least bit unkindly as Cherrypickers. Or maybe Partialpickers would be a fair synonym. If you do not prefer the jersey, no problem at all. I consider them honorary and virtual rather than cotton or rayon. Cheaper that way.
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

James Lutzweiler

Sergeant Major
Joined
Mar 14, 2018
Messages
1,816
I believe one is more qualified at knowledge by admitting the broader scope, 1830-1861.
Thanks, Lubliner.
Sorry. You won't understand what I meant by Pluotpicker because of a deleted post. BUt you are welcome to the number anyway, if you like. I am Plutopicker #1, but not because I am superior. Only because I was the first o invent the term.

Best,

James
 

WJC

Major General
Moderator
Thread Medic
Answered the Call for Reinforcements
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
12,874
What's wrong with the current, generally accepted definition? Antebellum is widely understood as the period after the War of 1812 and before the Civil War. That is, 1815 to 1861.
 

Carronade

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Messages
4,722
Location
Pennsylvania
Has anyone suggested that only literature from 1860-61 should be considered?

Of course the words of the secessionists at the time of secession are the most important, but that doesn't preclude studying the entire history. The possibility of the Union breaking apart was a concern from the moment of its inception, with one issue the most likely cause.
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

Andersonh1

Major
Joined
Jan 12, 2016
Messages
8,193
Location
South Carolina
Myself, I think study should go back at least to the Constitutional debates To 1866. With particular attention to the Compromise of 1820, the Compromise of 1850 and the splitting up of the Democratic Party in 1860.
I agree with this, though I think you have to go all the way back prior to the Declaration of Independence to understand where the idea of state sovereignty originated and how it developed alongside federalism and nationalism. The Civil War was the culmination of everything that came before it, in my view.
 

Viper21

Sergeant Major
Joined
Jul 4, 2016
Messages
2,486
Location
Rockbridge County, Virginia
I agree with this, though I think you have to go all the way back prior to the Declaration of Independence to understand where the idea of state sovereignty originated and how it developed alongside federalism and nationalism. The Civil War was the culmination of everything that came before it, in my view.
The best way to get a glimpse into the minds of the people making the decisions at the time is.... to do as you suggest. Go back to the DOI debates. The what, why, how, of those conversations, along with what was actually put to paper, set everything in motion.

Much of the Constitution is ambiguous. Plenty of folks believed secession was legal, & states maintained a status of sovereign entities. I continue to believe, these issues were not set in stone at the time. It wasn't declared illegal, until after the fact. The morality, & emotional parts of learning this historical period, cloud many of the other, & or constitutional issues of the day.
 

James Lutzweiler

Sergeant Major
Joined
Mar 14, 2018
Messages
1,816
What's wrong with the current, generally accepted definition? Antebellum is widely understood as the period after the War of 1812 and before the Civil War. That is, 1815 to 1861.
Nothing wrong at all as far as I am concerned. I don't dispute the widely recognized meaning of antebellum. However, I use it generically. One could even go all the way back to Julius Caesar, as Mark Twain did, when lectured on how he became an American. He said it was because Caesar crossed the Rubicon. He said that if that had not happened, perhaps civilization might have migrated East instead of West and he would be a Chinaman --of all things. But I do not bring this up in my incontrovertoble assertion that China is the Central Theme in American history. No question about it.
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

James Lutzweiler

Sergeant Major
Joined
Mar 14, 2018
Messages
1,816
Has anyone suggested that only literature from 1860-61 should be considered?

Of course the words of the secessionists at the time of secession are the most important, but that doesn't preclude studying the entire history. The possibility of the Union breaking apart was a concern from the moment of its inception, with one issue the most likely cause.
I know of no one who has ever said that or ever will, if by "that" you mean someone verbalizing "Nothing matters except literature from 1860-61 in the study of Civil War causation." However, many have said that exact thing by their actions, and their actions speak louder than words. Those who cite only 1860-61 documents and nothing else are screaming exactly that, even though they might not use the explicit words.

Single Causers or whatever they wish to be called remind me of the two hillbillies who once rode a train. As they rode along, they ate their first banana. They took their first bite just as the train entered a tunnel. One asked the other how it tasted. His buddy replied, "It tastes great but it will make you go blind." This is the logical fallacy known in Latin as "post hoc, ergo propter hoc," which being translated means "after this, therefore, because of this." This is how I see those into cherries rather than into planets like Pluto.

Sincerely,

Plutopicker #1
 

Lubliner

First Sergeant
Joined
Nov 27, 2018
Messages
1,734
Location
Chattanooga, Tennessee
I must remember moderation requirements are specifically designed to keep our progress clear.
If, for instance I had a focus on Peace Committees sent to Legislative bodies, where I would hope to find a conspiratorial theme of disbanding, and reforming, I could possibly limit my attention to 1860-1861. It would certainly be easier to gather it all in, but it would be a leaky cistern at best. How about Neptune; it would be more consonant to my extremes, James Lutzweiler?
Lubliner.
 

James Lutzweiler

Sergeant Major
Joined
Mar 14, 2018
Messages
1,816
I must remember moderation requirements are specifically designed to keep our progress clear.
If, for instance I had a focus on Peace Committees sent to Legislative bodies, where I would hope to find a conspiratorial theme of disbanding, and reforming, I could possibly limit my attention to 1860-1861. It would certainly be easier to gather it all in, but it would be a leaky cistern at best. How about Neptune; it would be more consonant to my extremes, James Lutzweiler?
Lubliner.

OK, Lubliner, I dub thee Neptunepicker #1. Congratulations! I doubt this designation (or compound for that matter) has ever been used before in all of human history. You are truly unique!

Now watch someone want to be Saturnpicker and run circles around you!!

James
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!
Top