Restricted Removing Confederate Monuments would edit history

Eric Calistri

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
May 31, 2012
Location
Austin Texas
I didn't think it was even hidden. Haven't seen anyone here deny it myself. I've seen plenty of our good Northern brothers try like the dickens though. Then one of them will turn around 2-3 days later slip and make a post showing that they did in fact not only own slaves, but had a number of slave markets for the sole purpose of selling them to the people they're ridiculing now.

I live in a city which has scores of monuments to the CSA. If you've got a sharp eye for such things you might pick out which one has been my avatar since I joined this group. Perhaps it is because I see so many of these monuments so frequently that the ahistorical tendencies SOME of them display cause me to disagree with the "monuments" are "history" and can never be changed.

One monument disrespects the confederate dead stating they "Died for States Rights." At the State Cemetary we get some boilerplate about "industrial North" and "agricultural South." The worst offender is the UDC placed plaque inside the Capitol which reads, in part: “We, therefore, pledge ourselves to preserve pure ideals … to study and teach the truths of history (one of the most important of which is that the War Between the States was not a rebellion, nor was its underlying cause to sustain slavery).”

Hiding slavery in regards to the Confederacy is "heritage." History was edited by the PLACEMENT of some of these monuments.
 

unionblue

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Member of the Year
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Location
Ocala, FL (as of December, 2015).
I said you'd said it before this got started. You've done nothing since but distance yourself form it, and when confronted use the slight of hand, "blaming others doesn't make you innocent" card. The same thing I just quoted you doing. Thank you for admitting it wasn't just the South, it was "mainly" gone by the ACW, and that the war was for Union to begin with. If you'd like to share more you're welcome to, UB. Otherwise you did all I asked. I ask no more of you, but to remember that when the South is being dragged through the gravel over something that happened 150 years ago. This has gone way too far. Its not the answer, and everyone knows its not.

M. Warren,

And I disagree, as I think I have been very plain in my stated opinions here. Distance myself from it? Simply don't agree, but how is that going to effect your paycheck or days off?

I would be extremely surprised if the 'entire South' felt like it was being dragged through anything over this issue. Yes, a few folks like us on these forums, some extremists on both sides of the issue are somewhat more involved, but until I see cranes and wrecking balls at each and every Confederate monument and graveyard, this is a blown-up issue, not a very real one.

Yes, there is passion and opinion, here and elsewhere, but I want to see actual events vice hysterical opinion and 30 second sound bites on TV.

As for it going too far, I don't see it as such. Calm discussion, debate and compromise should be the order of the day and when the dust settles, we might begin to see such.

Until that time,
Unionblue
 

cash

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Location
Right here.
Did I say that?

Yes, you did.

I said you wont find where anyone admitted it in this thread or the other two like it. Don't put words in my mouth, Cash. You quoted the post. Other places on this forum before this started it was common practice that they admitted it. Since it became all about demonizing the South, I haven't seen one. If I missed it I'll be glad to admit I did.

Please show a post from any thread anywhere on this forum where someone denied there had been slavery in Northern states. I say your claim is baloney.
 

JerseyBart

Brigadier General
Moderator
Forum Host
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Location
New Jersey
We can get on topic and grow up or I'm closing this thread down.
Posted as a moderator tired of the childishness that these threads become.
 

M.Warren

First Sergeant
Joined
Dec 14, 2014
Location
Watauga Settlement
Yes, you did.



Please show a post from any thread anywhere on this forum where someone denied there had been slavery in Northern states. I say your claim is baloney.

Show me where I said they denied it. I said they'd distanced themselves from it, and hadn't admitted it in this thread or the other two like it. You have a distinctive and noteworthy amount of skill with twisting words to suit your needs, Cash. If you want me to reply to anything else you say don't put words in my mouth again, Please. That's two posts in a row you pulled your "baloney" jab and accused me of something I didn't say. If you don't care if I respond then it suits me just the same.
 

M.Warren

First Sergeant
Joined
Dec 14, 2014
Location
Watauga Settlement
I live in a city which has scores of monuments to the CSA. If you've got a sharp eye for such things you might pick out which one has been my avatar since I joined this group. Perhaps it is because I see so many of these monuments so frequently that the ahistorical tendencies SOME of them display cause me to disagree with the "monuments" are "history" and can never be changed.

One monument disrespects the confederate dead stating they "Died for States Rights." At the State Cemetary we get some boilerplate about "industrial North" and "agricultural South." The worst offender is the UDC placed plaque inside the Capitol which reads, in part: “We, therefore, pledge ourselves to preserve pure ideals … to study and teach the truths of history (one of the most important of which is that the War Between the States was not a rebellion, nor was its underlying cause to sustain slavery).”

Hiding slavery in regards to the Confederacy is "heritage." History was edited by the PLACEMENT of some of these monuments.
If you'd care to check, Eric Calistri, I mentioned specifically that I didn't care about the monuments personally. I said it quite some time ago. Before you posted. My issue is with the way this is being treated. Its a witch hunt. Its driven by hate, and the need for revenge on a group of people that had no control over or even lived at the time of it happening. People who were friends and used to get along just fine are at each others throats over it. No good will come from that. There are other ways to deal with this that are actually productive.
 

Eric Calistri

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
May 31, 2012
Location
Austin Texas
If you'd care to check, Eric Calistri, I mentioned specifically that I didn't care about the monuments personally. I said it quite some time ago. Before you posted. My issue is with the way this is being treated. Its a witch hunt. Its driven by hate, and the need for revenge on a group of people that had no control over or even lived at the time of it happening. People who were friends and used to get along just fine are at each others throats over it. No good will come from that. There are other ways to deal with this that are actually productive.

Jeez dude kick it down a notch. Witch hunt? At each other's throat? If you want productive cut out the hyperbolic rhetoric.
 

cash

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Location
Right here.
Show me where I said they denied it.

Since you made this request, before I move onto the topic at hand I'll show you two occasions where you claimed they denied it:

Post #151
"Haven't seen anyone here deny it myself. I've seen plenty of our good Northern brothers try like the dickens though. Then one of them will turn around 2-3 days later slip and make a post showing that they did in fact not only own slaves, but had a number of slave markets for the sole purpose of selling them to the people they're ridiculing now."

Post #156
When James B. White asked you, "Are you saying that people here have denied there were ever slaves in the north? Could you post a link to some examples?" you responded: "In this thread or the others like it, you wont find one example of it. Other threads yes."

Because you've now shifted your position I'll assume you realize you were wrong when you made that claim, since you're unable to provide any examples from any other threads in this forum, and we can move on.

As to the topic at hand, I'll repeat my position that I believe the monuments should not be removed but instead should be interpreted for what they say about the people who put them up. Monuments are nearly useless regarding Civil War history, but they are incredibly useful for telling us about the time in which they were erected and the people who erected them.

Having said that, though, the people who have the political power to do so can do anything they want with the monuments. It took political power to put them up, so political power can bring them down or move them elsewhere. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. I find it rather disingenuous for people to be upset about the use of political power to move or remove monuments when political power was used to place those monuments in the face of those who opposed them to begin with and there doesn't seem to be much complaint about that.
 
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