Remove band springs from M1861

29thWisCoG

Corporal
Joined
Apr 12, 2021
If possible, I would like to remove the band springs from my M1861, I'm doing a tear down and want to go as far a I can with it... seems like the springs extend to the opposite side of the stock, as what appears to be a small pin as seen in the pic, all three springs have this approximately 2mm size hole across from it, is there a punch needed to remove the springs or should the springs be able to just pull out?
IMG_5373.JPG
IMG_5372.JPG
 

29thWisCoG

Corporal
Joined
Apr 12, 2021
I'm concerned about the wood as well, I was thinking of reinforcing it with some duct tape and possibly some thin wire on top of the tape, before trying to tap out the spring... Thanks for the insights I appreciate it.
 

Jeff in Ohio

Sergeant
Joined
Oct 17, 2015
You can see that the metal is rusted some on top of the band spring - you can be sure that the metal down inside the wood has some rust as well and will be stuck to the wood (160 years worth of sticking, as Craig Berry said), and pushing it out may break loose some wood as it comes out. I don't think duct tape or wire wrap could prevent such breakage
 

29thWisCoG

Corporal
Joined
Apr 12, 2021
It wasn't easy, but they eventually came out without tearing out any wood. Made a punch from a finish nail and tapped as lightly as possible, took about 20' for each spring. There was a light coating of rust on the pin part of the spring, and underneath the spring itself, which also caked on the wood underneath... now that all the fittings are removed from the stock I can go about cleaning the internals of the stock and apply some linseed oil to rehydrate. I don't want the wood to crack when shooting this beauty.
 

RicM

Cadet
Joined
Apr 17, 2021
I'm by far no expert, but I do go by Clint Eastwood's quote, "A man gotta know his limitations". Not only 160 year old wood I would be worried on splintering, I would be worried about breaking one of the 160 year old springs. I took my all original 1863 Type 2 down for a good careful cleaning, but left the back side of the Lock alone in one piece, as it just needed some Brake Cleaner spray to get rid of the grime and compressed air to blow out any dirt and dry it out followed with some light oil. Just didnt want to mess with it as it wasnt broke. As with the Band Springs I left them be. Just didn't want to risk damaging something. I cleaned up the outsides very carefully and a drop of oil and worked them so the Bands easily sprang back out, not getting stuck in down positions. Yours looked about the same as mine when I first got the rifle. Very glad it worked out and you were able to removed them!! Your a braver man than I. lolol Posted pic on mine after I cleaned her up, and have to say at 100 yards she is spot on target! Good luck and get yours cleaned up and ready to go!!

Screen Shot 2021-06-17 at 12.09.51 AM.jpg


Screen Shot 2021-02-05 at 9.29.03 PM.png


IMG_2582.jpg


Screen Shot 2021-04-05 at 12.09.26 PM.png
 

29thWisCoG

Corporal
Joined
Apr 12, 2021
@RicM that looks great! Ya I guess I was "feelin lucky" that day, not only did I take out the band springs but I have stripped down the rifle completely. I'm really glad that I did that as I was able to do a deep clean on the entire "insides" of the stock. I'm in the process of applying several coats of linseed oil thinned down 50/50 with mineral spirits to get it good and hydrated so it can withstand recoil better.

My thought is that this gun is an antique in decent condition, but its not a museum piece or have high collectable value. It's got some nicks and dings here and there, and some moderate bolster burnout. Some folks had already done some minor repairs to this old girl over the years so if I added my own personal touches here or there it won't really matter.

Looking forward to shooting the rifle, but taking my time getting her ready. Once I finish with the stock I'm going to soak the bore in Kroil and brush it out real good. I put a camera down the bore and there are a few rust patches near the chamber but the rest looks pretty good with decent rifling from muzzle to top of chamber. Some minor pitting was evident in the few inches above the chamber but nothing significant. I will give the bore a good flush using some moose juice and a nipple pump. Then it will be ready... oh, well, only after I disassemble the lock, clean it up real good then put it back together, Lol
 

rebracer

Sergeant
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Location
Southern Louisiana
@RicM that looks great! Ya I guess I was "feelin lucky" that day, not only did I take out the band springs but I have stripped down the rifle completely. I'm really glad that I did that as I was able to do a deep clean on the entire "insides" of the stock. I'm in the process of applying several coats of linseed oil thinned down 50/50 with mineral spirits to get it good and hydrated so it can withstand recoil better.

My thought is that this gun is an antique in decent condition, but its not a museum piece or have high collectable value. It's got some nicks and dings here and there, and some moderate bolster burnout. Some folks had already done some minor repairs to this old girl over the years so if I added my own personal touches here or there it won't really matter.

Looking forward to shooting the rifle, but taking my time getting her ready. Once I finish with the stock I'm going to soak the bore in Kroil and brush it out real good. I put a camera down the bore and there are a few rust patches near the chamber but the rest looks pretty good with decent rifling from muzzle to top of chamber. Some minor pitting was evident in the few inches above the chamber but nothing significant. I will give the bore a good flush using some moose juice and a nipple pump. Then it will be ready... oh, well, only after I disassemble the lock, clean it up real good then put it back together, Lol
Are you planning on firing this rifle? If so Kroil, while a wonderful product for virtually everything mechanical including modern firearms, should be avoided for black powder firearms that are actually fired/used. Avoiding petroleum based lubricants is very important.

I would seriously recommend you finish this cleaning up with Ballistol. it is a great product and can even get on the wood (though personally I like to keep it on the metal only). Even if you are not firing this rifle, I would not have Kroil be the final product left on the metal. Any natural lubricant would work as well. There is something very pleasing about a BP firearm with the smell of all natural lubricants and oils.

I certainly think you did the right thing removing the band springs, there is nothing wrong with a thorough cleaning. I am in the camp of careful disassembly and cleaning of original parts.
 

29thWisCoG

Corporal
Joined
Apr 12, 2021
Are you planning on firing this rifle? If so Kroil, while a wonderful product for virtually everything mechanical including modern firearms, should be avoided for black powder firearms that are actually fired/used. Avoiding petroleum based lubricants is very important.

I would seriously recommend you finish this cleaning up with Ballistol. it is a great product and can even get on the wood (though personally I like to keep it on the metal only). Even if you are not firing this rifle, I would not have Kroil be the final product left on the metal. Any natural lubricant would work as well. There is something very pleasing about a BP firearm with the smell of all natural lubricants and oils.

I certainly think you did the right thing removing the band springs, there is nothing wrong with a thorough cleaning. I am in the camp of careful disassembly and cleaning of original parts.

Thanks for that reminder! Before firing my musket I always run a patch or two of iso alcohol to remove the gun oil protective barrier. I always leave the musket bore with a thin coat of Barricade after cleaning, and then store it for the the next use.

The Kroil is needed here to restore the bore... it will penetrate the rust patches, and makes it easier to remove them with the brass brush. After this is done I'll use a water/lestoil/castor oil mix (a variant of "moose milk") to flush it all out, and then run patches until clean. Then a patch of Barricade down the bore to protect it, and then store the rifle until next use.

I know most don't like the smell of Ballistol, but I like it a lot... has a smell of musty cheese and black licorice mixed together!
 

RicM

Cadet
Joined
Apr 17, 2021
I havent tried Kroil, I will put that on my list to get, thanks! Yes I do use Ballistol as with Bore Butter inside the barrel after cleaned from shooting. Also use Renaissance Polish over the entire rifle after its cleaned from use. At times also Lemon Oil on the wood. I have found using Nevr-Dull cotton polish on the metal cleans up blems and grime and rust pits very well. Its non abrassive and removed rust pits and grime & BP residue around the breach. When she was taken down I did clean the wood stock with Murphys Soap and a sponge then once dried used the Boiled Linseed for a few coats allowing for drying time between coats though the band Springs where the only things I left alone in the stock. It was good like you mentioned to clean and coat the inside of the stock not to mention a close inspection for any cracks (had none). She now hangs in the Living Room at my wife's request. (She loves it). I find the most amazing thing is the history of these old war horses and the fact that they can still be used, if they can only talk.
 

rebracer

Sergeant
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Location
Southern Louisiana
Thanks for that reminder! Before firing my musket I always run a patch or two of iso alcohol to remove the gun oil protective barrier. I always leave the musket bore with a thin coat of Barricade after cleaning, and then store it for the the next use.

The Kroil is needed here to restore the bore... it will penetrate the rust patches, and makes it easier to remove them with the brass brush. After this is done I'll use a water/lestoil/castor oil mix (a variant of "moose milk") to flush it all out, and then run patches until clean. Then a patch of Barricade down the bore to protect it, and then store the rifle until next use.

I know most don't like the smell of Ballistol, but I like it a lot... has a smell of musty cheese and black licorice mixed together!
I figured you knew what you were doing, I just thought Id mention as I have certainly made plenty of mistakes due to missing some basic bit of information!

I sort of like the smell of Ballistol as well it reminds me of circus peanut candy.
 

RicM

Cadet
Joined
Apr 17, 2021
Just want to shoot out an add on to the topic of the band springs. I was referred to Lodgewood.com site when I was searching for a "link bolt" for my 1854 Johnson Percussion pistol it holds the ramrod to the barrel. Anyway they have it!!! Along while checking out the site they also have the band springs for the 1861-1864 Springfield Rifles!! Well since i ordered my bolt along with a few other things the order was filled within 2 days and shipped out on the 3rd day. Very fast!! If you havent heard of them consider it another source for all of us. https://www.lodgewood.com/

Screen Shot 2021-07-01 at 1.16.32 PM.png
 
Top