Remington Model 1863 Zouave Rifles

S.Isaacson

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Aug 10, 2018
Location
Illinois
Many of us are probably pretty familiar with these rifles both in their original form and the reproductions. The question I've never really seen answered is why none appears to have been issued. They were well-made guns in the standard infantry rifle caliber yet from what I recall, all 10,000 of them were still stored in at the at Watervliet Arsenal at the end of the war. So my question is this, why do you think they were still in storage and never issued? Has anyone here seen any documentation that might make sense of this? We know many soldiers still had inferior arms, so why hold a batch of good rifles in storage?
 
This topic has been cussed and discussed many times here. There have been reports of a few that were excavated at Petersburg. I'm going to defer to @Craig L Barry and @johan_steele
 
I have heard that this contract was awarded to Remington as a bonus for their contribution to the war effort. Colt was being paid a lot more for their 1860 Army and Remington jumped in with a superior design at a much better price.
 
This topic has been covered in-depth many times previously and can be found with a bit of archival research. As for the "excavated parts" that is primarily mythical. None of the archaeologists have ever been able to produce the relics for examination. If they were able to do so, I would bet they are Georgia Armory Rifle parts.....if they even exist at all. All documentation shows beyond a doubt that the Remington M-1863 Rifle was never issued during the ACW.
J.
 
This topic has been covered in-depth many times previously and can be found with a bit of archival research. As for the "excavated parts" that is primarily mythical. None of the archaeologists have ever been able to produce the relics for examination. If they were able to do so, I would bet they are Georgia Armory Rifle parts.....if they even exist at all. All documentation shows beyond a doubt that the Remington M-1863 Rifle was never issued during the ACW.
J.

Furthermore, some the parts from the M1863 Remington Brass Fitted Rifle (the term Zouave Rifle is a modern term used by manufacturers to get around trademarks) are SIMILAR to the M1841 'Mississippi' Rifle... a well rusted lockplate or barrel could quite easily be confused for Remington parts. I would bank on a misidentification of such parts as being a more likely source of 'issued Zouave Rifles' than the Georgia Armory Rifle, as there were so few of these made. Furthermore, there is some thought among CW Arms Collectors that the Georgia Armory Rifle photographically presented in Echoes of Glory: Arms and Equipment of the Confederacy MAY be a Frankenrifle made up from serviceable parts as opposed to a 'scratch built' rifle. I'll save that discussion for another time. I'm sure @johan_steele and @ucvrelics would have more info on this as well.
 
The excavated parts that were discovered in a road construction, which were claimed to be from a Remington M-1863 Rifle, were supposed to have been a Patch Box and a Butt Plate. This is from an individual who claims to have seen them. I still don't buy it.
J.
 
The excavated parts that were discovered in a road construction, which were claimed to be from a Remington M-1863 Rifle, were supposed to have been a Patch Box and a Butt Plate. This is from an individual who claims to have seen them. I still don't buy it.
J.

The patch box and butt plate would have been strikingly similar to the M1855 Harpers Ferry rifle... again, more common than the Georgia Armory Rifle.
 
You can call it anything you want, except a Remington M-1863 Rifle! BTW, the patch box, butt plate, and barrel bands on the GA Armory Rifle are the same as the Harper's Ferry M-1855 brass bound rifles. The mysterious excavation recovery was supposed to have been in the State of Georgia. I don't believe Georgia received any of those rare Harper's Ferry brass rifles in their militia draws prior to the ACW. I'm sure Lanyard Puller will know for sure!
J.
 
The excavated parts that were discovered in a road construction, which were claimed to be from a Remington M-1863 Rifle, were supposed to have been a Patch Box and a Butt Plate. This is from an individual who claims to have seen them. I still don't buy it.
J.

Weren't all the guns accounted for at the arsenal and later sold as surplus?
 
Here's the explanation of what happened to the 10,000 Remington Zouaves, at least according to Bannerman, a famous surplus dealer in New York. This from his 1927 catalog. It's all yellowed and marked up but the photos are OK, as it was a reprint by DBI Books..

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Drat... I cut the price off of the photo. It was $7.85 including the bayonet and scabbard. There you have it.
 
Covered elsewhere rather extensively, to do a search in this forum.

But for now, short skinny is that in Government venue this Remington was just a third interation order of the "Mississippi" rifle, each succeeding contract (1855, 1863) simply incorporating the latest improvements or option requests, yet in essence the same U.S. two-band pattern (compare online for yourself).

The point is this: that as common government inventory some of the 1863 interation may have been issued from the same racks with the earlier iteration. In other words the fact that 10,000 remained until final surplus doesn't mean all 10,000 were the Remington contract. This idea is for some reason abhorrent to campaign-style reenactors and even mainstream venues, who ban the 1863. It is rejected for reenactment venue not only because of it's awkwardness in drill with 3-banders, but because the hobby has become more "effete" with improved availability of more authentically-justified U.S. pattern three-banders.

So despite the value reenactors and collectors might place on absolute provenance, as a practical matter to Mr. and Mrs. John Q. Public it's enough to know that government-issue .58 cal two-band percussion rifles saw battle in the CW. There's really no call for a hissy-fit over their occasional use at mainstream events, as long as safety concerns (no mixed types) are addressed.

It has NOT helped that these 1862/63 Remington contract rifles gained the modern-day nickname "Zuave" simply because of the 1851/55 versions that were issued to several Zuave units.

The 1863 iteration is considered by some, shooters especially, to be the ne ultra of CW muzzle-load rifle design. That original surplus inventory, once gone, fueled the type being one of the first CW muzzle-loader types to be reproduced in quantity overseas, the Italians hedging the value of these guns as shooters but sensing the profit to be made in marketing them as a common arm of the CW, supplying the needs of early reenactment infantry (history be darned).
 
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The first reproduction of the Remington M-1863 Rifle was contracted for in Italy with Antonio Zoli, and marketed in the U.S., by Val Forgett. These arms made their appearance on the American market in early 1960. At that time Val's primary market was the North-South Skirmish Association, of which he was an early member going back into the 1950's. No one was even sure if there were going to be Civil War Centennial celebrations at that time, or not. These reproductions were not cheap by any means, costing nearly as much as an unfired original Remington M-1863 Rifle. In fact, original 3-band muskets, in near new condition, were much cheaper than the $125 cost for Val's Remington reproduction! In 1960 $125 was a LOT of money!
J.
 
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