Remington Mississippi Rifle

tesoronut

Cadet
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Location
Virginia
Hello, Folks. I recently bought an original 1841 Mississippi rifle, that I have some questions about. I appreciate any comments. I ordered this gun from an on-line antique gun dealer. The lockplate has "US", and 1849 behind the hammer. I can make out "Remington's" in front of the hammer. It has, on the barrel, near the breech(left side)- "JOB", and a "P". What I don't understand is the lack of sling swivels, and no place for them. Someone else has told me that ALL Miss. rifles had sling swivels. This gun was represented as an original period item. It looks almost too good though. I'm going to attempt to attach a picture or two. Thanks for comments.
 

Attachments

  • MVC-001S.JPG
    MVC-001S.JPG
    33.4 KB · Views: 559
Another picture(of trigger guard)

As you can see, there's no place for a swivel......?
 

Attachments

  • MVC-002S.JPG
    MVC-002S.JPG
    41.8 KB · Views: 738
I'm not sure what to say other that there is a sling swivel on my Mississippi. Just look at this image of a Mississippi:

1841_mississippi.gif


What's the rest of this rifle look like? Looking at the wood around the lock plate I'm wondering if a repair has been done to the stock? Maybe it's just the photo.
 
It isn't uncommon to find M1841's minus the sling swivels; wear and tear. What I can see of yours looks legit. There are no repro's made w/ Remington stamped on them; the Italians don't want the law suits Remington would file.

Is it in .54 or .58? I'll post a couple pics of original M1841's for you. The rear site looks like the standard "Kentucky" block site instead of one of the many arsenal refits.
 
Here is an overall shot of an M1841.

I'm a big fan of the M1841 judging from what I can see I'm going to wager .54 cal. The stamp on the butt plate looks to be a rack number sometimes seen on militia arms.
 

Attachments

  • SR1602620051211044481.jpg
    SR1602620051211044481.jpg
    4.3 KB · Views: 493
Thanks. You have made me feel better. This gun is very "clean". It seems to have been "touched up", and maybe had a little light wood sanding. I got it for 1450.00, and there is no pitting whatsoever, even around the nipple. It almost looked "too good". But I got it from a reputable dealer. Some "experts" have told me that none of these were made without swivels, and all of them were made for the military(so all should have swivels), but after seeing the picture of yours, I think they must be wrong. As you probably know, the rear swivel would be made into the trigger guard. I wonder how the troops rigged slings on those like ours?
 
Another picture

I don't know the caliber be it 54 or 58. Rifling is deep and distinct. Condition overall is very appealing to the eye.
 

Attachments

  • MVC-005S.JPG
    MVC-005S.JPG
    34.4 KB · Views: 509
Last picture..

Thanks for the comments. I am a firm believer that collecting Civil War guns is not only fun, but a great investment. If you look at how these have appreciated over the last 10-20 years, it's remarkable. had you invested an equal amount in savings, or CD's, they would not have done as well. I only have 4 CW guns at this time. Just recently started collecting. Have an 1863 Sharps conversion, 1861 Springfield musket, and Smith SR carbine.
 

Attachments

  • MVC-007S.JPG
    MVC-007S.JPG
    37 KB · Views: 671
The sling swivels were likely lost during service or removed after the war in civilians hands. It's true that no M1841's were made up w/out sling swivels but it is important to understand that herculean efforts were made to keep weapons in service as long as possible, cosmetic damage was overlooked and sometimes things that would have a modern armorer condemn the weapon were repaired. As an example my father has an original M1816 that at some point had the front barrel band replaced w/ a non standard one and the workmanship is such that if you didn't know better you'd think it came off the rack that way. And I've seen a P53 w/ a sbaer mark on the barrel where some lucky soldier used it to block a mad cav man. It was obviously repaired and put back into service.

Now as to yours I can't quite make out the detail on the ramrod but from what I can see it doesn't look like an armory rebuild. The front barrel band doesn't appear to be one of the shorter ones which would also indicate one of the arsenal rebuilds. So it's not as likely to have been bored out to .58; though there were quite a few that were left in .54 for a variety of reasons. If you look at the muzzle and see any evidence that it had been lathed to a slightly smaller outer diameter than the rest of the barrel or if there was evidence of a bayonet lug having been soldered onto the barrel a few inches from the muzzle those are indicators of modification to fit a bayonet.

From what I can see my thoughts would be that it was an original "As issued" M1841 as the rear site looks like the kentucky style rear site and if there is no evidence she was ever rebored to .58...

$1450 sounds like a decent deal for an original M1841 in shootable condition.

As to the sling swivels being missing as I said many CW arms are missing their swivels due to post war use & abuse.

My father has an original M1859 Sharps carbine (converted to center fire .50-70) a smoke scarred Smith, M1861 & P53 (missing it's sling swivels), M1816 flinto to percussion conversion as well as a few others. You certainly aren't kidding about investments... my father was a gunsmith from 1962-1979 and had many a M1861 or P53 cross his table and remembers selling them for as little as $50 and as much as $150 and now finding one in firing condition for less than $1200 is a treat.
 
I know very little of signifigance regarding civil war arms, but I greatly enjoyed both the presentation of the photos, the questions and the responses from two of our more prominent hosts! Thanks to you all. I'm interested in eventually owning a replica, just to make some noise and keep up with appearances at local SCV activities. Any suggestions? We do have a local dealer here in Nashville who is constantly promoting his gun shows. Our booth at those events is an excellent recruiting tool for the SCV.
 
Larry, the M1841 is a superb start if you want to just make some rackett and as made by Euro Arms is one of the better repops along w/ the Armi-Sport M1842. They at least come close in both balance and weight to the originals. The irony and irritation is that the Italians can make quality firearms when they want; they just don't seem to think it neccessary.

The fun thing to me about the M1841 is that there were so many minor variants, eight different major US ones and a host of CS ones. She had a well earned reputation as a very accurate weapon. Men who got their paws on them were rightly thankful.

Larry, if you're serious about spending some money on a good repop avoid the M1861 & P53 repros out there as very few do anything more than approximate the look of an original. If you're wanting to actually try out one in live fire try for an M1841. W/ a lot correct, more than wrong IMO, it's probably the best Italian CW arm repop. Really for as much as you want to invest in it it can be converted to any of the various versions in use. The M1842 is about the same weight and balance of an original w/ more right than wrong but it's a smoothie designed for buck and ball and many people just aren't that interested in a shotgun w/ attitude though IMO it is one of the most underrepresented arms in CS re-enactments.

Good Luck
I know very little of signifigance regarding civil war arms, but I greatly enjoyed both the presentation of the photos, the questions and the responses from two of our more prominent hosts! Thanks to you all. I'm interested in eventually owning a replica, just to make some noise and keep up with appearances at local SCV activities. Any suggestions? We do have a local dealer here in Nashville who is constantly promoting his gun shows. Our booth at those events is an excellent recruiting tool for the SCV.
 
Here are a few sites I know that have a decent rep; might find a reasonably priced original on one.

Middle Tennessee Civil War Relics
Has always had some reasonably priced originals on their page.

Dennis Fulmer Antique Firearms
Often has something nice and he is quite reputable.

Shiloh Civil War Relics On-line Main
I've seen some real sleepers here over the years... always when I'm dead broke of coarse.

Rifles / Muskets
Over priced IMO... but they usually have an interesting cross section.

Collectors Firearms
Another site w/ some intersting stuff.

Antique Firearms for Sale
Haven't looked on the site in a long time, used to carry a lot of CW arms.

Collectible Firearms and Edged Weapons
IIRC kind of a catch all site.

College Hill Arsenal :: Firearms :: Long Arms
Another site w/ the occasional really nice buy.
 
I agree that the gun is .54 caliber. When the M1841 was updated, a newer sight was added to take advantage of the longer range. The photo shows the older sight.
 
Yep. I think it's 54

Thanks for the interesting info and replies. I am convinced that the Miss. is 54 caliber. Thanks for those links for the weapon sources above, also.
 
Tesoronut's trigger guard looks very much like Mike's, except for the swivel-mounting projection. Suppose it could have been ground off and polished. I see a dent at or near that location. Might it have been damaged and the swivel mount was in the way?

ole
 
Ole, I think you have a point. The muzzle-end brass barrel band(end-cap) has what's left of the "block" underside, where the front swivel would have mounted. It's obvious that it has been ground off, down to about 1/8" protrusion. Perhaps they did a better job of eliminating the one on the trigger guard..
 
Was where I was speculating, nut. Guess we've figured it is an original and that you didn't get screwed, but that it has also reworked at some time, either by a gummint smith in an arsenal, or Shane's dad, who wouldn't have left a nub on the barrel band, and would have polished the grinder marks.

ole
 
I know very little of signifigance regarding civil war arms, but I greatly enjoyed both the presentation of the photos, the questions and the responses from two of our more prominent hosts! Thanks to you all. I'm interested in eventually owning a replica, just to make some noise and keep up with appearances at local SCV activities. Any suggestions? We do have a local dealer here in Nashville who is constantly promoting his gun shows. Our booth at those events is an excellent recruiting tool for the SCV.

Try Volunteer Arms in Smyrna if their still around. They always had good prices on new and used repro's. Course it's been about 5 years.
 
Back
Top