Reconstruction, how bad was it really?

leftyhunter

Colonel
Joined
May 27, 2011
Messages
16,792
Location
los angeles ca
No, I didn't offer that rationale. As I said, I made an observation of corruption by state governments during reconstruction.

Why was it OK to disfranchise the white voters?
They were not disenfranchised once they took the Loyalty Oath. Many former Confederate officers were elected to state and federal office's.
Leftyhunter
 
  • Like
Reactions: WJC

Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

leftyhunter

Colonel
Joined
May 27, 2011
Messages
16,792
Location
los angeles ca
So whose vote keep the carpetbaggers and scalawags in office?
Your using pejorative terms for people who won legal elections and then lost their voters due to racist paramilitary forces viol. Are you advocating that white people have the right to suppress the vote of people of color?
Leftyhunter
 

leftyhunter

Colonel
Joined
May 27, 2011
Messages
16,792
Location
los angeles ca
I'm still waiting for your answer to my question: Don't you think whites in those states would have voted the carpetbaggers and scalawags out of office forthwith had they the power and opportunity? (post#93) And may I remind you the topic deals with Reconstruction and not what happened in the South and the rest of the country for the next one hundred years.
Racist voters would not stand for elected officials who supported equal rights for all. Said racists were allowed to use violence during and after Reconstruction to ensure white supremacy.
Leftyhunter
 

CSA Today

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
19,714
Location
Laurinburg NC
Racist voters would not stand for elected officials who supported equal rights for all. Said racists were allowed to use violence during and after Reconstruction to ensure white supremacy.
Leftyhunter
You still haven't answered why if the Southern white vote wasn't suppressed why they simply didn't vote the hated carpetbaggers and scalawags out office.
 
Last edited:

CSA Today

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
19,714
Location
Laurinburg NC
Your using pejorative terms for people who won legal elections and then lost their voters due to racist paramilitary forces viol. Are you advocating that white people have the right to suppress the vote of people of color?
Leftyhunter
Shouldn't you be saying racist paramilitary forces, at the behest of their predominantly new white masters, suppressed the white vote especially in the nine states that had white majorities?
 

leftyhunter

Colonel
Joined
May 27, 2011
Messages
16,792
Location
los angeles ca
Southern whites did fight back with some success, but it wasn't until the self-serving Republican Party made their politically expedient sweetheart deal in 1876 did the madness of Reconstruction end.
So allowing people of color equal rights is madness?
Leftyhunter
 

leftyhunter

Colonel
Joined
May 27, 2011
Messages
16,792
Location
los angeles ca
Shouldn't you be saying racist paramilitary forces, at the behest of their predominantly new white masters, suppressed the white vote especially in the nine states that had white majorities?
Absolutely not since once white Southerners took the Loyalty Oath they could vote and hold office.
Leftyhunter
 

DRW

Sergeant
Joined
Feb 7, 2014
Messages
816
Location
New York
In Florida, William Henry Gleason is considered a classic example of a carpetbagger:

He used political connections for personal gain including real estate acquisition and staged what might be considered a coup against Gov. Harrison Reed.

Many controversial and alledgedly corrupt land grant policies in Florida - including Hamilton Disston, the Florida East Coast Canal, and various railroads - were actually post-Reconstruction. However, I have heard the argument made that as these grants-for-improvements policies were generally not practiced in the antebellum South they represent a permanent corruption of the South by Yankees and mostly benefited Yankee tourists and settlers. So while after Reconstruction they are perceived as part of its legacy.
The venality competition gets complex quickly: the most notorious scam to afflict Reconstruction era Florida - the Swepson-Littlefield scandal, was named for a North Carolina native (Swepson) and New Yorker (Littlefield). Disston may have gotten the deal of a lifetime in buying about 1/4 of the Florida peninsula for pennies on the acre, but the state was cash-strapped and Disston did sink a lot of money into trying to dredge, drain and develop almost uninhabited Everglades land. Just as bad as the Swepson scandal, fervent Confederate David Yulee initiated court proceeding that stymied desperately needed railroad development for years. And of course it was Northern railroad investors Henry Plant and Henry Flagler to whom the state can attribute basically all development along both coasts during the late 19th and early 20th century. All in all, "carpetbaggers" served Florida quite well on balance.
 
Joined
Feb 15, 2019
Messages
6
Earlier today I said I would post a question on reconstruction. I have two books on the subject, Foner's, and Stampp's, I just haven't been able to dig deeply in them. The jest of the question is that all too often pro-confederate folk always claim (in the most vague, and general of terms) that reconstruction was SO bad for the South.

The problem is that nearly all the time when these claims are posted, NO DETAILS OF WHY IT WAS SO BAD, are posted. It's always complaints of "policies" during reconstruction were purposely used to (so to speak) down-trod the southern people, and keep em poor.

I'm giving folk a chance to show us if these claims are true. I'm not caring for vague "my GGrandpappy said", or "GGAunt so-n-so told my Father"...I'd like to see serious documentation and factual references please.

Kevin Dally
Read "The South Under Siege 1860 Thru 2001." by Frank Conner.
 

CSA Today

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
19,714
Location
Laurinburg NC
Senator Francis Blair of Missouri said:

“The state government [of South Carolina] has not afforded adequate protection to persons and property. In fact. until a late period, by the free exercise of the pardoning power and by arming of the coloured militia, while the whites were disarmed, gross errors were committed. We refer to the occurrence which took place at Union.The colored militia was on a parade, with arms in their hands. They met on the road a one-armed white man, who had formerly been in Confederate service, who had some whiskey in his wagon This they demanded, flourishing their arms. He gave them some. Then they demanded more, This he declined, upon the grounds that it was not his property, but belonged to other parties they deliberately took him from his wagon, carried him into the woods, and there shot him in cold blood with State arms in their hands.

Here was a flagrant and wanton case of highway robbery and murder under the circumstances as monstrous as it was without the slightest justification. To permit such a case to go unpunished... would be equivalent to the roving commission of theft and blood

Five of those identified as engaged in the deed were arrested and committed to jail. An attempt was made to have them removed to another county. An armed band entered the jail and with their own hands executed the law. They left behind a paper stating as a reason, that the removal of the prisoners to Columbia meant their release without trial or punishment.”

Francis P. Blair, 'Protection of life in the South,'speech in the United States Senate, 3,4 April 1871 (Washington: F.and J Rives and George Bailey. Reporters and printers of the debates of Congress. 1871).p14.
 
Joined
Feb 15, 2019
Messages
6
Good Morning. Frank Conner does a very good job of explaining Reconstruction as it occurred. Please read His Book, "The South Under Seige, 1860 until 2001."
Semper Fi And Good Night Chesty Puller Where Ever You Are
 

leftyhunter

Colonel
Joined
May 27, 2011
Messages
16,792
Location
los angeles ca
They had far fewer blacks there still, there were race riots and oppression despite their paltry numbers
No one has argued that race relations outside the South we're perfect
Still not understanding your argument that De Jure Apartheid in the South was superior to how African Americans were treated outside the South.
Leftyhunter
 

Joshism

Sergeant Major
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
2,125
Location
Jupiter, FL


Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!
Top