Rare photos of Grant you may of never seen before

Orion.M.E

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Photographs were brought together for one image

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Orion.M.E

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One of my favourite images has to be the one top far right. Thank you for sharing these. The two in the middle are definitely images I haven't seen before.
No prob, I saw these and I honestly had to share them

These are photographs of general Grant, second part to my five photos of Grant you may of never seen before
Made into one whole photo for easy viewing
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Newly discovered photo of Grant from the Mexican American war making this one of his very first photos ever taken of him

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No prob, I saw these and I honestly had to share them
I'm glad you did. Thank you again.

I might just say in the image with Grant as a young Cadet he appears to be much younger than his actual age. I was very surprised when I saw this image for the first time. He seriously looks like he's about 12yrs of age or younger.
 

Orion.M.E

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I'm glad you did. Thank you again.

I might just say in the image with Grant as a young Cadet he appears to be much younger than his actual age. I was very surprised when I saw this image for the first time. He seriously looks like he's about 12yrs of age or younger.
My guess is that the photo taken of Grant wasn’t that great at capturing still images and that his face got blurry making it look like he’s younger
 

John Hartwell

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Orion M.E. said:
"Newly discovered photo of Grant from the Mexican American war making this one of his very first photos ever taken of him"

View attachment 388331


What is the evidence that this is Grant? It looks nothing at all like him, certainly not the 25 year old he was during the Mexican War. That's the face of a grim middle-aged man.
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Orion.M.E

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Orion M.E. said:
"Newly discovered photo of Grant from the Mexican American war making this one of his very first photos ever taken of him"

View attachment 388331


What is the evidence that this is Grant? It looks nothing at all like him, certainly not the 25 year old he was during the Mexican War. That's the face of a grim middle-aged man.
View attachment 388338
https://cowanauctions.com/lot/mexic...usly-unpublished-only-surviving-example-29328anonymous sixth plate, with an octagonal brass mat, housed in a early maroon morocco leather case. The plate stamped on the lower left L[ouis]B. Binsse & Co. N.Y.. Craig's Daguerreian Registrylists Binsse as a supplier of daguerreotype plates between 1843-45. In 1843 he is noted as being at the company was listed at 40 Beech Street. In 1844-1845, the company was listed at 83 William Street.
There are no known surviving daguerreotypes of Grant from this period, though a tintype copy of a now-lost daguerreotype is curated in the collections of the National Portrait Gallery,( ) and a paper photographic copy of a now lost daguerreotype is curated by the Ohio Historical Society ( ).

This daguerreotype has been examined by a number of Grant/and or photographic specialists, and there is no considered consensus that this is Grant. Grant Romer, Director, Advanced Residency Program in Photographic Conservation at at the George Eastman House, for example, noted in an April 2006 message to the consignor: My first response (an important one) is very positive. I immediately saw a resemblance before going to the comparison image.; Dr. William Schultz, noted author and collector and authority on military images of the Mexican War, reported in May, 2006: Detailed examination of this sixth plate daguerreotype depicts and officer of the United States Regular Army in a single breasted frock coat of a company grade rank. He wears narrow shoulder straps of the style worn during the period of the Mexican War...denoting a rank of first lieutenant...The facial features shows positive correlation to known contemporary images of Ulysses S. Grant. Grant was brevetted first Lieutenant in 1847 and received the actual rank...later that September. It is my opinion upon examination of this image that it is of Ulysses S. Grant taken circa 1847."

In addition to these experts high quality digital images of both of these photographs was examined by Gerald B. Richards, of Richards Forensic Services, noted that while many of the facial characteristics of the images he examined are consistent, the plate offered here does not reflect sufficient individualizing characteristics to positively identify him as Ulysses S. Grant, nothing was noted...that would suggest is it not Grant...and that based on the materials submitted for examination, it is more than likely that the individual in [the plate offered here] is Ulysses S. Grant. Each of these opinions is included with the lot.


Some more rare photographs of Grant you may of never seen before. Part 3

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[This is in response to post #1. Threads were combined very confusingly.]

The image at the left is not a photograph, but a post-civil war illustration inspired by the actual 1840s photo on the lower right.
I’m also sorry for the combined photos, the mods combined them not me so it wasn’t my choice
 
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John Hartwell

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"There is no considered consensus that this is Grant," when offered at auction in 2000. Two experts are cited. One: "My first response (an important one) is very positive." The other: "the plate offered here does not reflect sufficient individualizing characteristics to positively identify him as Ulysses S. Grant." Yet he considers it "more than likely" to be Grant! Peculiar.

I'm "more than skeptical," as, apparently, were the bidders ["Estimate: $20,000 -$30,000. Price realized ... $0."] If this had been sold anytime since then, at anywhere near such an estimate, we would all know about it.

Overall, @Orion.M.E, you've offered a very interesting compilation of Grant portraits, some of which I hadn't seen before. Thank you.
 

Orion.M.E

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"There is no considered consensus that this is Grant," when offered at auction in 2000. Two experts are cited. One: "My first response (an important one) is very positive." The other: "the plate offered here does not reflect sufficient individualizing characteristics to positively identify him as Ulysses S. Grant." Yet he considers it "more than likely" to be Grant! Peculiar.

I'm "more than skeptical," as, apparently, were the bidders ["Estimate: $20,000 -$30,000. Price realized ... $0."] If this had been sold anytime since then, at anywhere near such an estimate, we would all know about it.
Well I thought I’d put this photo out there any case, but I do believe it to be Grant. Here are some examples.

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Edited to remove copyrighted image.

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Well I thought I’d put this photo out there any case, but I do believe it to be Grant. Here are some examples.

A8D2BC45-A701-494C-90E3-CB73FDE5B7D2.jpeg

Edited to remove copyrighted image.
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Your evidence too I noticed that you had used a photograph taken of Grant from a distance in 1845 with the photo being blurry and making him look young which I had also addressed. So I think that using a photo of Grant from a distance and saying it doesn’t look like him isn’t quite fair.

Also it is a copy of another photo which could result in some blur which I must admit that does make it harder to tell its Grant. But at the end I respect your opinion
 
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A. Roy

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This daguerreotype has been examined by a number of Grant/and or photographic specialists, and there is no considered consensus that this is Grant.

Interesting to see this image and read the expert opinions about it. As far as I know, Cowan's has a good reputation as an auction house; but all in all, they are in the business of selling old things, and it's to their advantage if what they have here is the genuine article. If there were any supporting provenance information for this daguerreotype, I'm sure that would have been mentioned.

(Just an aside: This emphasizes to me the value of adding notes to images, so people years from now will know the identities of those pictured!)

Roy B.
 

Grant's Tomb

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Orion M.E. said:
"Newly discovered photo of Grant from the Mexican American war making this one of his very first photos ever taken of him"

View attachment 388331


What is the evidence that this is Grant? It looks nothing at all like him, certainly not the 25 year old he was during the Mexican War. That's the face of a grim middle-aged man.
View attachment 388338
He was heartbroken when Alexander Hays was killed at the battle of the Wilderness
 

Orion.M.E

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Great Images of Grant, two of which I have not seen before this posting. Thanks for sharing, really interesting!
No problem, there are a lot of photos of Lincoln that people talk about but Grant had a lot to and they got overlooked a lot so I thought it would be a good topic to post. May I ask which photos you hadn’t seen before?
 

James N.

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Newly discovered photo of Grant from the Mexican American war making this one of his very first photos ever taken of him

View attachment 388331
A great photo if genuine - however I've seen FAR too many photos recently posted purporting to be someone famous that obviously are NOT the person intended that I'm naturally inclined to be skeptical. This daguerreotype is so dark and indistinct that although it does look like it could be him, I'd like to know its provenance - where did you first see it? The unfortunate apparent scratches on its face are almost certainly from someone attempting to dust or brush off the plate, damaging the delicate finish of the emulsion - I know because I almost did the same thing! A truly historic and unique photo like this - the only one of First Lady Dolley Madison, taken when she was a very old lady - was similarly damaged and almost destroyed in this manner.

Edit: Sorry, I posted this before seeing your above post on its authenticity.
 

Orion.M.E

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A great photo if genuine - however I've seen FAR too many photos recently posted purporting to be someone famous that obviously are NOT the person intended that I'm naturally inclined to be skeptical. This daguerreotype is so dark and indistinct that although it does look like it could be him, I'd like to know its provenance - where did you first see it? The unfortunate apparent scratches on its face are almost certainly from someone attempting to dust or brush off the plate, damaging the delicate finish of the emulsion - I know because I almost did the same thing! A truly historic and unique photo like this - the only one of First Lady Dolley Madison, taken when she was a very old lady - was similarly damaged and almost destroyed in this manner.
I left a link to it, it was on an auction website. You can scroll back and look for it.
 

James N.

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I left a link to it, it was on an auction website. You can scroll back and look for it.
We obviously crossed in posting - I have similar concerns about THIS image supposedly showing a young pre-Stonewall Lt. Thomas J. Jackson also taken around the same time in Mexico:

"Is this a photo of a young Jackson? I tend to believe that it is, although I've only seen it recently here on the forum and lacking in attribution as to where the original can be found... The war with Mexico in 1846 which coincided with Jackson's graduation and commissioning as a Second Lieutenant in the artillery branch of the United States Army was likely the first opportunity for him to have his "likeness" taken. Supporting the identification of the image as Jackson in Mexico are of course the non-regulation headgear, but also the white buff saber belt supporting the regulation Saber for the Light Artillery, though it appears to be an enlisted model rather than one for an officer... It was not unusual in either the Mexican or Civil War for officers to carry enlisted men's swords and sabers, especially in the South and while in the field."

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In properly identifying an image like these the most important evidence is likely provenance - I have NO idea where either of these turned up, how recently, or where they've been for the past 175 years!
 
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