Questions about General Meade

My first inkling of Meade had nothing to do with the Civil War: Meade, in 1858 with the Army Corps of Engineers, built this:

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It's the Barnegat Lighthouse on the northern tip of Long Beach Island, New Jersey. We went there every summer when I was a kid, and I climbed the lighthouse at least a dozen times over the years. I was impressed with what Meade could do as an engineer way before I became interested in him as a general.
Honestly, I think that's why I'm partial to Meade! I love going to LBI during the summer and seeing Old Barney! I feel like our state has a unique connection to him.
 
Thanks everyone that helped answer my questions! I knew Sickles was involved in politics but I didn't realize just how well he was connected and how those connections gave him power to make such allegations. It would make sense for him to try and put the attention elsewhere. I do have the book, Sickles at Gettysburg, so that might be one of the next ones I read to give me a better understanding. Thanks Private Billy and Corporal Eric for all of your information. I might have to see Pipe Creek if I get a chance.

Nathan you are so correct about the lack of Civil War information taught in the classroom. In high school, I remember reading a couple pages on the causes and then it went right to reconstruction! I teach 7th grade Social Studies and even though I cover world history in my class, the students hardly know anything when I try to compare an event to the Civil War.

I'm realizing the more I read and start to understand about the Civil War, the more there is to read!

You're welcome. If this issue about Meade interests you, you might consider reading my book One Continuous Fight: The Retreat from Gettysburg and the Pursuit of Lee's Army of Northern Virginia. Its primary focus is on the decision-making process by Meade and his generals. I think you might find it very interesting.
 
You're welcome. If this issue about Meade interests you, you might consider reading my book One Continuous Fight: The Retreat from Gettysburg and the Pursuit of Lee's Army of Northern Virginia. Its primary focus is on the decision-making process by Meade and his generals. I think you might find it very interesting.

Mary, I'd say, read it, anyway--it's a really good book. You will learn a lot. And I'm not schmoozing you, Eric :smile:.
 
Regarding Meade and his lighthouses: During that period of his Regular Army career when he was building lighthouses, his civilian boss--the bureaucrat in charge of the agency responsible for those lighthouses--was Stephen Pleasonton, the father of Alfred Pleasonton. Because of that connection, Meade knew Alf Pleasonton for most of Alf Pleasonton's life. I believe it's the reason why he made Pleasonton his de facto chief of staff after Butterfield was wounded during the cannonade before Pickett's Charge. I also believe it's why Meade kept Pleasonton in command of the Cavalry Corps long after everyone else was screaming for his head. However, Pleasonton stabbed Meade in the back by flagrantly lying in his testimony to the Joint Committee, at which time Meade acquiesced to Pleasonton's removal.

To punish him, Pleasonton was sent to Missouri. To his credit, he did a fine job of chasing after--and defeating--Sterling Price's raiders in October 1864.
 
I have been reading Allen Guelzo's Gettysburg: The Last Invasion and I'm confused about something. I had read in the chapter "Let us have no more retreats" that General Meade was brought before a Joint Congressional Committee on the Conduct of the War. The story is that supposedly a Republican named Wilkinson along with Sickles and Doubleday had been talking about Meade's proposal to retreat on July 2nd to Pipe Creek. Now I have read the Pipe Creek circular that Meade put out to his Generals on June 30th describing the positions he wanted the army to take on Pipe Creek as a defensive position to fight the ANV. However, when Buford and later Reynolds were engaged at Gettysburg, the Pipe Creek idea was cancelled. We also know that the Army of the Potomac had, to put it mildly, a rough couple of days on July 1st and July 2nd. Now, I don't agree that Meade should have retreated to Pipe Creek and his Generals also disagreed with him so the discussion of retreat ended. Later, Sedgwick, Sykes, and Newtown all denied hearing Meade "talk" about a withdrawal which got him out of trouble with the Committee.

My question is what could the Committee have done to Meade if others did say that he discussed a withdrawal to Pipe Creek? Isn't a commanding officer always supposed to be thinking of ways to protect their army if necessary or did his actions show that Meade had lost faith in his troops? Was Sickles just trying to get Meade in trouble?

And a last thought...why is Meade not as popular as say Grant or Lee? If you ask anyone not educated in the Civil War, they almost always recognize the names Grant and Lee but most have never heard of Meade.
Meade did not propose to retreat to Pipe Creek on 7/2. Meade simply got the opinion of each general on the record and then stated,"Such then is the decision." (to stay and fight at GB.) Meade was an aggressive commander and believed his chance at success would greater if Meade defended a superior position and invited Lee to attack him.
 
Mary, I'd say, read it, anyway--it's a really good book. You will learn a lot. And I'm not schmoozing you, Eric :smile:.

Amen. That and Plenty of Blame to Go Around should be required reading before you get to discuss Gettysburg here at CWT. And I am totally serious...(whatever schmoozing is, I'm not doing it).
 
Thanks Eric. I was not aware of the Pleasanton connection to Meade.
 
Was Sickles just trying to get Meade in trouble?
Sickles, along with all the other Hooker self indulging cronies. Doubleday, Howe, Pleasonton, Birney, Butterfield just to name a few
 
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Was Sickles just trying to get Meade in trouble?
Sickles, along with all the other Hooker self indulging cronies. Doubleday, Howe, Pleasonton, Birney, Butterfield just to name a few
Oh heavens no, Cadet Green. Sickles was deflecting culpability away from himself. (Say what you will hwvr. about Sickles, he was a man of exceptional courage and his men adored him.)
 
You're welcome. If this issue about Meade interests you, you might consider reading my book One Continuous Fight: The Retreat from Gettysburg and the Pursuit of Lee's Army of Northern Virginia. Its primary focus is on the decision-making process by Meade and his generals. I think you might find it very interesting.

Eric thanks for the recommendation! I was actually just looking at your books at Barnes and Noble the other day. They looked very interesting and now it seems I'm going to need to read them!
 
Was Sickles just trying to get Meade in trouble?
Sickles, along with all the other Hooker self indulging cronies. Doubleday, Howe, Pleasonton, Birney, Butterfield just to name a few
Sickles and others had elevated opinions of their prowess. Sickles, however, disobeyed orders and played a CYA game during the aftermath.
 
Sickles was a fascinating individual, i'll give you that. His courage is not being questioned. His morals, well that's a forum all by itself, lol.
Ole, elevated opinions of their prowess, now that's an understatement, lol.
 
Sickles was a fascinating individual, i'll give you that. His courage is not being questioned. His morals, well that's a forum all by itself, lol.
Ole, elevated opinions of their prowess, now that's an understatement, lol.
Sickles was in it because he brought votes and he maybe could ride whatever fame he gained to higher office. That he was not an entirely bad general is beside the point.

He assembled troops and votes and was therefore valuable to Lincoln. So he stumbled on July 2nd is almost beside the point. That he tried to put his insubordination on Meade is another.

We can, today, more than 150 years later, debate about whether or not he screwed up Day 2.
 
I have been reading Allen Guelzo's Gettysburg: The Last Invasion and I'm confused about something. I had read in the chapter "Let us have no more retreats" that General Meade was brought before a Joint Congressional Committee on the Conduct of the War. The story is that supposedly a Republican named Wilkinson along with Sickles and Doubleday had been talking about Meade's proposal to retreat on July 2nd to Pipe Creek. Now I have read the Pipe Creek circular that Meade put out to his Generals on June 30th describing the positions he wanted the army to take on Pipe Creek as a defensive position to fight the ANV. However, when Buford and later Reynolds were engaged at Gettysburg, the Pipe Creek idea was cancelled. We also know that the Army of the Potomac had, to put it mildly, a rough couple of days on July 1st and July 2nd. Now, I don't agree that Meade should have retreated to Pipe Creek and his Generals also disagreed with him so the discussion of retreat ended. Later, Sedgwick, Sykes, and Newtown all denied hearing Meade "talk" about a withdrawal which got him out of trouble with the Committee.

My question is what could the Committee have done to Meade if others did say that he discussed a withdrawal to Pipe Creek? Isn't a commanding officer always supposed to be thinking of ways to protect their army if necessary or did his actions show that Meade had lost faith in his troops? Was Sickles just trying to get Meade in trouble?

And a last thought...why is Meade not as popular as say Grant or Lee? If you ask anyone not educated in the Civil War, they almost always recognize the names Grant and Lee but most have never heard of Meade.

Meade had some issues with the newspaper men attaches to the Army, so after Grant came East, the reporters almost always credited Grant.

I thought on the Pipe Creek line was that it was Meade's first choice, but after July 1st, he had it as a backup plan, in case his Army was in trouble.

pipe.jpg
 
Sickles was in it because he brought votes and he maybe could ride whatever fame he gained to higher office. That he was not an entirely bad general is beside the point.

He assembled troops and votes and was therefore valuable to Lincoln. So he stumbled on July 2nd is almost beside the point. That he tried to put his insubordination on Meade is another.

We can, today, more than 150 years later, debate about whether or not he screwed up Day 2.

Apparently, the Lincoln's liked being entertained by Dan Sickles. I seem to recall Lincoln approved his promotion to general after it was turned down.
 
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