powder flasks for long guns

byron ed

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Location
Midwest
Came across this photo here. I was told powder flasks for long guns were no longer in use by the time of the CW (even though they were listed in U.S. inventory). There was no place in the drill for them and infantrymen had no access to loose powder. Apparently this guy's unit didn't know that, but then the dog wasn't allowed either. Thoughts?

I grant that this is guy is probably an irregular, and perhaps he was issued a standard long arm and cap and cartridge box at some point.

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IMHO, this would appear to be a Confederate soldier armed with his personal double barrel shotgun and accouterments. These arms were used far more in the early years than most people realize.J.

On second look, geez I see that is what is going on in this photo. Thanks.

I'd withdraw the OP if I could.
 
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The photo is great, it shows an early war CS soldier with his trusty (yankee) hunting dog. This breed could sniff out a yankee a mile away.
 
...The M1841 was originally issued w/ a flask...

In that case then flasks were issue equipment for infantry going into the Civil War (which has been denied in prior threads). Of course the flasks would have been left behind or discarded going into campaign -- except maybe sharpshooters who could optionally custom-charge their long guns in preference to using issued cartridges. And civilians with state-of-the-art long guns (of which several were commonly commercially available both before and well into the Civil War) would yet find use of a powder flask more practical than hauling around a bulky box of pre-charged cartridges, yes?
 
In that case then flasks were issue equipment for infantry going into the Civil War (which has been denied in prior threads). Of course the flasks would have been left behind or discarded going into campaign -- except maybe sharpshooters who could optionally custom-charge their long guns in preference to using issued cartridges. And civilians with state-of-the-art long guns (of which several were commonly commercially available both before and well into the Civil War) would yet find use of a powder flask more practical than hauling around a bulky box of pre-charged cartridges, yes?
Probably not, carrying a flask was obsoleted by the regular issue of standard ammunition. No Regular US Army troops were carrying the M1841 anymore and those in Arsenals that had been converted to .58 w/ long range sights had also been altered to use a bayonet and were issued out with standard accouterments.

Those in .54 still in armories were also being issued out without the flask with cartridge boxes and standardized cartridges in .54 minnie. Those w/ flasks would have been those still in .54 that had made it into civilian market via a Govt program that sold them to settlers headed west for protection against hostile natives and across the trails to California and other western states. While a few M1841's were likely issued out w/ powder flasks early in the war I expect it would have been rather rare as using a paper cartridge is faster, safer and more efficient in the line or on skirmish duty. No .54 minnie ammo that I am aware of was ever issued out as loose balls.
Every US unit I have managed to track down with M1841 still in .54 were using standard minnie paper cartridges. The sole exception I can recall off the top of my head was an Arkansas and Texas unit that traded them in at the first opportunity.

Good lord but that is longer than intended. If anyone has a correction please mention it as I am a rather nutty M1841 fan. In .58 with the any of the various Harpers Ferry long range sights I think the equal to any other arm in service at the time and considerably better than many.
 
Probably not, carrying a flask was obsoleted by the regular issue of standard ammunition....While a few M1841's were likely issued out w/ powder flasks early in the war... Every US unit I have managed to track down with M1841 still in .54 were using standard minnie paper cartridges. The sole exception I can recall off the top of my head was an Arkansas and Texas unit...

If I were cynical I'd say fish or cut bait. Either some flasks were still being issued going into the CW or they weren't. And if there's no record of whether the remaining 1841s were issued with the flasks in their kit or not, why bring it up?

But I'm not cynical, I totally understand that if flasks were issued it was rare and short-lived.
 
Flasks were used by men who weren't supplied with military arms. The early soldiers of the Missouri Guard under Green had civilian arms. Some sharpshooters had flasks too if they had special target rifles.
 
In that case then flasks were issue equipment for infantry going into the Civil War (which has been denied in prior threads). Of course the flasks would have been left behind or discarded going into campaign -- except maybe sharpshooters who could optionally custom-charge their long guns in preference to using issued cartridges. And civilians with state-of-the-art long guns (of which several were commonly commercially available both before and well into the Civil War) would yet find use of a powder flask more practical than hauling around a bulky box of pre-charged cartridges, yes?
I think what Johan is saying is that the M1841 was originally issued with a flask, in fact there was an entire kit that went with it, but by the time of the ACW these were obsoleted, by almost 10 years. The idea of the M1841 was to be used as a flanking/rifleman's weapon and in the case of these companies, who may be separated from the main body, were issued loose powder and shot and did not have to rely on the main for supply. Somewhere I have a picture of the rifleman's pouch, one of the most rare leather accouterments of the period as they were used quite harshly. I'm too lazy to go find my original, but will see if I can find a pic.

I have one that I reenact early war Confederate along with a M1855 rifle, but as far as US issue, not during the ACW.

I found a picture online that I took of the 1841/1855 accouterments in my collection, the box is the M1841 cartridge box, the belt is the rifleman's belt M1855 and the pouch, with flask. These are original:

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On second look, geez I see that is what is going on in this photo. Thanks.

I'd withdraw the OP if I could.
No, no, glad you posted, he is definitely either a vet, current soldier, most likely Confederate if current. Wearing a piped shell and I see some tassels around the flask with what appear to be military muffin buttons on shell.
 
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