Post 1861 Peace Convention, were there any other attempts to bring seceded states back into the Union?

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unionblue

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
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Ocala, FL (as of December, 2015).
It’s a US Fort, so Lincoln could reinforce it however he liked. He did not need any permission from the governor of a state to resupply a federal installation. I have never seen evidence that there were troop reinforcements being sent.

The bottom line is that there was nothing to negotiate between the southern rebels and America. The commissioners sent by South Carolina, and later the rebel government, started on the basis that they were separated from the Union.

The position of the United States government, as expressed by President Jackson in 1833 and President Buchanan and President Lincoln at the time, was that a state could not just vote itself out of the Union.

With two diametrically opposing starting foundations there really was nothing to negotiate.
@BuckeyeWarrior ,

Was ther not about 200 Union troops on board those transports headed to Ft. Sumter? I was under the impression that Lincoln had sent a note to Gov. Pickens that if the supply effort was not interfered with, those troops would not be put in.

Any information on that?

Unionblue
 
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Greywolf

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@BuckeyeWarrior ,

Was ther not about 200 Union troops on board those transports headed to Ft. Sumter? I was under the impression that Lincoln had sent a note to Gov. Pickens that if the supply effort was not interfered with, those troops would not be put in.

Any information on that?

Unionblue
Here you go UB
 

edfranksphd

Private
Joined
Aug 30, 2019
After the 1861 Peace Convention were there any other attempts to bring the seceded states back into union before Sumter, or prevent states like VA, NC, TN, AR, from seceding completely?

Different member of Congress must have been having discussions, no? Don't quote me on this but I believe I heard Robert Toombs of GA was talking certain people to try to bring Georgia back into the Union?

Thanks ahead of time folks.
Not to quibble, but according to Lincoln, there never were any seceded states, only states whose governments had been seized by traitors and had thereby declared themselves to have thus seceded from the Union. This non-secession fiction was maintained by the US until well into Reconstruction, when they finally decided that it was more convenient to now acknowledge that a secession had occurred and that, therefore, these states now had to jump thru a series of Radical Republican hoops (laws and amendments passed w/o the votes of any of the non-seceded seceded states) in order to be readmitted into a Union from which they had never, per the Lincoln admin, legally seceded?! Go figure...
 
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NedBaldwin

Major
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Feb 19, 2011
Location
California
After the 1861 Peace Convention were there any other attempts to bring the seceded states back into union before Sumter, or prevent states like VA, NC, TN, AR, from seceding completely?

Different member of Congress must have been having discussions, no? Don't quote me on this but I believe I heard Robert Toombs of GA was talking certain people to try to bring Georgia back into the Union?

Thanks ahead of time folks.
Lincoln met with representatives from Virginia to talk about not having their convention vote, or something like that.

Senator Andrew Johnson and other allies like Congressmen Tom Nelson and Horace Maynard, went around Tennessee giving speaches trying to convince people against secession. Didnt work and Johnson had to escape Tennessee
 
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Lincoln met with representatives from Virginia to talk about not having their convention vote, or something like that.

Senator Andrew Johnson and other allies like Congressmen Tom Nelson and Horace Maynard, went around Tennessee giving speaches trying to convince people against secession. Didnt work and Johnson had to escape Tennessee
I didn't know that, thank you!
 
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Lincoln met with representatives from Virginia to talk about not having their convention vote, or something like that.

Senator Andrew Johnson and other allies like Congressmen Tom Nelson and Horace Maynard, went around Tennessee giving speaches trying to convince people against secession. Didnt work and Johnson had to escape Tennessee
My argument is that if the war hadn't started at Sumter maybe the Confederacy could've stock piled arms, built up the rail roads, and won support in the north for not starting the war. What if Lincoln was the one to start the war with an attack? Or invasion? The south could've won sympathy.
 

NedBaldwin

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Location
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My argument is that if the war hadn't started at Sumter maybe the Confederacy could've stock piled arms, built up the rail roads, and won support in the north for not starting the war. What if Lincoln was the one to start the war with an attack? Or invasion? The south could've won sympathy.
Certainly possible.

In my view Lincoln could have declared that he was going to reoccupy/retake US property, like Fort Moultrie and the US customs house or mint building, and if he had sent forces to do this it would look like an invasion; or he could have told the new federal judge he appointed for Alabama to get himself to court and send a detachment of troops to enforce it, since the locals would have blocked him from arriving. Would anyone that matters really sympathize?

The danger for Davis is that delay allows Virginia, North Carolina, and Tennessee to calm down and start to think that Lincoln wasnt the bogeyman and allows NY, MA, MI, etc to get even more ready. And if he allow Lincoln to resupply Sumter, implying that the US rightfully holds the fort, where does he draw the line? And South Carolina has already declared that fort must be taken by any means necessary and people are chomping at the bit for war, so delay makes Davis already look like the wrong choice as CSA president....
 
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The only way to prevent a State from lawfully seceding would have been to adopt a constitutional amendment prohibiting secession. And that, of course, was impossible. As for re-entry into the Union, that would have taken an act of Congress, and, of course, a petition from the State wishing to rejoin. Unthinkable, really.
In 1780's Virginia and New York in adopting the Constitution said separately that: If for any reason, the Constitution wasn't working out for them they would leave the Union. Not one of the other Colonies said they couldn't leave.

In 1804, a couple of Northern States said if Louisiana was allowed into the union without having a Northern State come in as well, they would leave the Union because the power would swing in the South's favor. During the War of 1812 a delegation of 3 men, from the New England's Hartford's Convention, was sent to Washington DC to tell the President to end the war or all of New England would leave the Union. In 1845 some of the Northern States threatened to leave the Union if Texas was allowed in without a Northern State to keep balance and fear Texas would divide it's self into 4 States to give the South and unfair balance in Congress. By then the House was already in Northern control due to population.

When California came into the union the Senate went into Northern Control with two senators more than the Southern States had. The South from 1850 to 1860 had little or no say in Congress. The passing of the Morrell Tariff (sic) shows the North's ability to over ride the South's complaints. The other 13th amendment (Corwin Amendment) which was written after Lincoln's election shows that most of the North wasn't really worried about the Slave. And Lincoln refused to discuss no war with the 3 men the South sent to Washington for peace. With an armed fleet outside Charleston Harbor S.C. had no recourse but to open fire or have a bayonets' thrust into it's back. The one question left from this war about the nation is the one I'll put at the end of this paragraph: Where is the Land of the FREE and Home of the BRAVE, if it takes a gun to hold it together. That is the one reason that the section of the country involved in the Slave trade (till almost 1880) and had been consuming 100's of thousands of bales of cotton without a complaint for those factories or their workers, put forth slavery as a reason for the war! It is more a lie than truth. Read letters where Yankees said, "I don't care now who wins, now that I find we are fighting for the darkie." Letter home to Wisconsin in Jan. or 1863. { It is in Read Mitchell's book. He has 3 on social history of this war. Read them all. }

After the war when they were going to try Jefferson Davis as a traitor, the defense filed it's briefs and the prosecutors resigned. Why, because of the book by Willian Rawl, A View of the Constitution of the United States, published in 1825, and used at West Point from 1826 to 1840. The book's last chapter taught that leaving the Union, based on the Declaration of Independence which declares a persons' right to a government of their own, a State had the right to leave the Union. In view of the fact Jefferson Davis, G. Meade, and others were taught this, the North lost any ability to win any trial and an appealed to the President Johnson to pardon all Southerners, which is what happened and Jeff. Davis, as well as Robert E. Lee, was off the hook. Davis asked for the trial and the North refused.
 
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NedBaldwin

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In 1780's Virginia and New York in adopting the Constitution said separately that: If for any reason, the Constitution wasn't working out for them they would leave the Union.
Not actually what they wrote


In 1804, a couple of Northern States said if Louisiana was allowed into the union without having a Northern State come in as well, they would leave the Union because the power would swing in the South's favor. During the War of 1812 a delegation of 3 men, from the New England's Hartford's Convention, was sent to Washington DC to tell the President to end the war or all of New England would leave the Union.
And in 1814 the Richmond Enquirer editorial declared:
"No man, no association of men, no State, or set of States, has a right to withdraw itself from this Union of its own accord. The same power which knit us together can unknit. The same formality which formed the links of the Union is necessary to dissolve it. The majority of States which formed the Union must consent to the withdrawal of any one branch of it. Until that consent has been obtained, any attempt to dissolve the Union, or obstruct the efficacy of the constitutional laws, is treason—treason to all intents and purposes."

In 1845 some of the Northern States threatened to leave the Union if Texas was allowed in without a Northern State to keep balance and fear Texas would divide it's self into 4 States to give the South and unfair balance in Congress. By then the House was already in Northern control due to population.
And congressman John Quincy Adams brought it up in Congress but was shouted down with yells of "Traitor" and a resolution was started to censure him


The other 13th amendment (Corwin Amendment) which was written after Lincoln's election shows that most of the North wasn't really worried about the Slave.
The Corwin Amendment was mostly supported by the South

The one question left from this war about the nation is the one I'll put at the end of this paragraph: Where is the Land of the FREE and Home of the BRAVE, if it takes a gun to hold it together.
Police officers still carry guns to keep us in line. Use of force by the government is nothing new 🤷‍♂️
But definitely a lot freer after we got rid of the slave owning


After the war when they were going to try Jefferson Davis as a traitor, the defense filed it's briefs and the prosecutors resigned. Why, because of the book by Willian Rawl, A View of the Constitution of the United States, published in 1825, and used at West Point from 1826 to 1840. The book's last chapter taught that leaving the Union, based on the Declaration of Independence which declares a persons' right to a government of their own, a State had the right to leave the Union. In view of the fact Jefferson Davis, G. Meade, and others were taught this, the North lost any ability to win any trial and an appealed to the President Johnson to pardon all Southerners, which is what happened and Jeff. Davis, as well as Robert E. Lee, was off the hook. Davis asked for the trial and the North refused.
This is untrue nonesense. President Johnson issued a pardon to all the traitors, so no trial could be held.
 
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Certainly possible.

In my view Lincoln could have declared that he was going to reoccupy/retake US property, like Fort Moultrie and the US customs house or mint building, and if he had sent forces to do this it would look like an invasion; or he could have told the new federal judge he appointed for Alabama to get himself to court and send a detachment of troops to enforce it, since the locals would have blocked him from arriving. Would anyone that matters really sympathize?

The danger for Davis is that delay allows Virginia, North Carolina, and Tennessee to calm down and start to think that Lincoln wasnt the bogeyman and allows NY, MA, MI, etc to get even more ready. And if he allow Lincoln to resupply Sumter, implying that the US rightfully holds the fort, where does he draw the line? And South Carolina has already declared that fort must be taken by any means necessary and people are chomping at the bit for war, so delay makes Davis already look like the wrong choice as CSA president....
My answer would be to fire on Sumter, but wait as long as possible. Neither side fore saw a four year war, that lack of foresight was a greivous error.

What's the harm in waiting another couple weeks while you ready yourself?
 
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