Popular vs. Scholarly works: Help me understand

peteanddelmar

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Nov 29, 2014
Location
Missouri
I have been a reader all my life.
The 2 years I spent in college was largely spent in chasing journalism news and stories.

I never was nor am bitten by the "education as a destination" bug.

So those of you that understand please help me understand about scholarly books.

Does a prof get a paid sabbatical to write such a book?
Is it ever really intended to pay for itself?
Is it subsidized by the university and therefore the government?

How do I find well written, sourced, yet fast moving narrative style reads without dumbing down or losing accuracy?
I have found too many 500 plus page books that are well done, but to some degree you end up just plowing your way through.
Will I always find what I want just in popular, mass market books?

Authors and people who understand the publishing game please weigh in.

Thanks
 
Read some of Eric Wittenberg's excellent and entertaining--and yes, scholarly--books, such as Plenty of Blame to Go Around and One Continuous Fight. The two are not mutually exclusive. One of my favorite historians, Dr. Susannah Ural, is a great writer--and so is Dr. Donald Frazier. I wouldn't exclude their books on the basis that they're well-researched and historically accurate.

One need not cancel out the other.
 
In Dr. Ural's case, her latest was written while she was teaching at Sam and later Southern Miss, going through a divorce, having and raising a son, and speaking all over the country--oh, and researching her real goal, the Hood's Brigade book, which is nearing completion.

So, again, all of the above. Writers--and historians--make whatever arrangements they need to make. Universities do their best to snag good historians and writers. Whatever fits.
 
In Dr. Ural's case, her latest was written while she was teaching at Sam and later Southern Miss, going through a divorce, having and raising a son, and speaking all over the country--oh, and researching her real goal, the Hood's Brigade book, which is nearing completion.

So, again, all of the above. Writers--and historians--make whatever arrangements they need to make. Universities do their best to snag good historians and writers. Whatever fits.

How do the profs get the time to write their books and how do they pay for themselves?
And who finances well done "popular" books?
Do authors of history get paid?
It seems so small compared to lurid trash, largely for women, that get 60 feet of shelf space at Walmart!
(Men get there sick lurid trash on TV and internet)
 
My wife and two daughters have their PhD's and have taught for some time at the university level. The two daughters are both published authors. Their universities have not subsidized any of their books in any manner. Their books are written for the general public and are only loosely part of the world of academia. Had they been written as text books or ancillary reading, they could have become mandatory reading in some courses and in that loose sense the university might be said to have subsidized their writing.

Your desire to enjoy your reading may pose a problem. My own experience in reading history, mostly military and economic, is that the most enjoyable have come from authors not considered to be inhabitants of the groves of academia. Bruce Catton comes to mind as an author, writer of Civil War history, whose writing is simply matchless. Shelby Foote is another. I don't think any academic tome I have ever read has given me an appreciation of what happened in that war, and why, as writings like theirs. I suggest that you ask the posters on this site to recommend the authors and titles that they have found to be the most enjoyable. I get the impression that most people on this site read history because they enjoy it, not derive their income from it.
 
In Dr. Ural's case, her latest was written while she was teaching at Sam and later Southern Miss, going through a divorce, having and raising a son, and speaking all over the country--oh, and researching her real goal, the Hood's Brigade book, which is nearing completion.

So, again, all of the above. Writers--and historians--make whatever arrangements they need to make. Universities do their best to snag good historians and writers. Whatever fits.

Diane, do you think non-affiliated authors write well also?
Most of their work I have seen is usually about a local action or battle or theatre.

I am just trying to avoid some "dog" books I ordered years ago...just because they were available.
Plus I wanted to understand more.
 
I can't answer your specific question but on a related line the author Resa Aslan was asked why there seems to be a "suspicion" of academics among the population. He told the interviewer that he blames academics themselves. He said that too many write books for each other to read and discuss with as you say the public is left to "plod through." He writes for a mass audience, and a student asked him how they could someday get a popular book published like he did. He told this student "Get tenure first - it does not make you popular among your colleagues." According to him research boiled down for the average guy to read and enjoy is stigmatized among academics. I don't know, its just what I heard him say.
 
My wife and two daughters have their PhD's and have taught for some time at the university level. The two daughters are both published authors. Their universities have not subsidized any of their books in any manner. Their books are written for the general public and are only loosely part of the world of academia. Had they been written as text books or ancillary reading, they could have become mandatory reading in some courses and in that loose sense the university might be said to have subsidized their writing.

Your desire to enjoy your reading may pose a problem. My own experience in reading history, mostly military and economic, is that the most enjoyable have come from authors not considered to be inhabitants of the groves of academia. Bruce Catton comes to mind as an author, writer of Civil War history, whose writing is simply matchless. Shelby Foote is another. I don't think any academic tome I have ever read has given me an appreciation of what happened in that war, and why, as writings like theirs. I suggest that you ask the posters on this site to recommend the authors and titles that they have found to be the most enjoyable. I get the impression that most people on this site read history because they enjoy it, not derive their income from it.

There, that helped! I don't really know how it all works.
Yes, if I can't enjoy the reading I know I won't do it.
Statistical works bore me. General histories I've read enough.
I want biographies, narratives based on eyewitnesses, etc.
I am old enough to just read what I want to read.
"Plowing through" is not preferred.
 
I think (not 100 percent sure) that you are the person who tried to warn me off of Holt's Whig party history. Whoever it was had it right. 1000 pages of tiny print, dry, thousands of details, ugh! I plowed through and learned a LOT. But I don't think I would do it again. I would not have gotten the learning from a more readable book, but if it hadn't been winter time I would not have finished it. I am not one that has to have a book that is purely entertaining (no pain no gain after all) but Holt really, really did not intend that book for the average guy. Thus the average reader will never gain the knowledge that Holt spent his life to produce.
 
I think (not 100 percent sure) that you are the person who tried to warn me off of Holt's Whig party history. Whoever it was had it right. 1000 pages of tiny print, dry, thousands of details, ugh! I plowed through and learned a LOT. But I don't think I would do it again. I would not have gotten the learning from a more readable book, but if it hadn't been winter time I would not have finished it. I am not one that has to have a book that is purely entertaining (no pain no gain after all) but Holt really, really did not intend that book for the average guy. Thus the average reader will never gain the knowledge that Holt spent his life to produce.

When people get deep and wordy around here I constantly make jokes that I am not smart enough to stand here!
People that can enjoy those thick tomes are way smarter than me.
I shouldn't have ever got hooked on Louis Lamour westerns....which take off "like a bullet"!
 
If one is to teach at the university level, one must have a book in the works. Unfortunately, some have the gift of writing enjoyable books and some don't.

Then there are some who have the great gift of writing who aren't necessaily academics. And then there are a few (these precious few) who are scholars and have the gift of writing clear, concise, history.They are not all necessarily academics -- just serious students of the War.

You have to ask yourself what is most important to you -- tedious detail, fun read, or the rare: both.

If I wanted to buy a book to read, the first thing I think of is the publisher. NCUP, LSU, or Savas Beattie. You don't get bad books from those publishers.
 
If one is to teach at the university level, one must have a book in the works. Unfortunately, some have the gift of writing enjoyable books and some don't.

Then there are some who have the great gift of writing who aren't necessaily academics. And then there are a few (these precious few) who are scholars and have the gift of writing clear, concise, history.They are not all necessarily academics -- just serious students of the War.

You have to ask yourself what is most important to you -- tedious detail, fun read, or the rare: both.

If I wanted to buy a book to read, the first thing I think of is the publisher. NCUP, LSU, or Savas Beattie. You don't get bad books from those publishers.

Thanks Ole.
 
If one is to teach at the university level, one must have a book in the works. Unfortunately, some have the gift of writing enjoyable books and some don't.

Then there are some who have the great gift of writing who aren't necessaily academics. And then there are a few (these precious few) who are scholars and have the gift of writing clear, concise, history.They are not all necessarily academics -- just serious students of the War.

You have to ask yourself what is most important to you -- tedious detail, fun read, or the rare: both.

If I wanted to buy a book to read, the first thing I think of is the publisher. NCUP, LSU, or Savas Beattie. You don't get bad books from those publishers.
The U of North Carolina books tend to be more readable than other academic books as do those from Oxford University Press.
 
At non-community college level colleges and universities a prof is expected to do research as part of her weekly work. The research is expected to culminate in a scholarly book or article. In that sense the research is subsidized.

Many scholars will apply for grants from foundations that allow them to take a semester off and often to travel to archives to complete their research and writing.

The academic book then becomes an important artifact used for hiring and promotion.
 
At non-community college level colleges and universities a prof is expected to do research as part of her weekly work. The research is expected to culminate in a scholarly book or article. In that sense the research is subsidized.

Many scholars will apply for grants from foundations that allow them to take a semester off and often to travel to archives to complete their research and writing.

The academic book then becomes an important artifact used for hiring and promotion.

Ok. That is helpful too. @Pat Young and @diane and everyone, thanks.

When I was a young man I participated in public speaking through 4-h and FFA. I went to state level competitions and won a few times. But it was the writing that my family liked.
They want me to write something about the civil war era of my family, fiction or not! I couldn't do the fiction.
Even if I got help and put something small together....it would take 43 drafts and I don't have the connections to get published.

But mostly I just wanted to understand the different types of books and writing...so I could read better.
Eric Wittenburg sounds like a great author and I will see if I can afford his work!.

Do writers ever co-operate or is it all jealousy and secret keeping?
I would like to follow a researching writer around, bring them coffee, brown nose them a little...you know....general groveling to see what the process requires and what it is like. A NICE but successful author.

PS - Had an old family friend write a book entitled , "Little Heathens" and a second "Always Little Heathens" about his childhood...it is doing ok. So many people can identify with his era and growing up, without actually dying from the process.! I ran around with the whole clan so I know want to see a movie! (LOL)
 
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