Pickett's Charge: Maps, Testimonies and 21 Century Technology

E_just_E

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Got to love battlefield maps. They have been used for 150+ years as guides to understanding what happened back then. Yesterday, I posted this one of Pickett's charge, which is a lot of fun and a lot more inaccurate.

It is not a secret that I believer that the Confederate Assault of the Cemetery Ridge is still one of the largest mysteries out there as far as a single Civil War action goes (no conspiracy, just confusion, is the root of the mystery IMHO :smile: ) And it is kind of fun trying to put visuals, old testimonies and modern technology together to see what you get (or what you don't get.)

By far, I think that the best map of the initial line up of the charge is this one, that Steven Stanley did, and it is hosted at the Civil War Trust website:

Expired Image Removed

And then you go back and find words that describe the lining up of the Confederates before the assault started (so they were pretty lucid) and you hear things like they were lined up two deep (that's for Garnett's Brigade.)

And that begs to calculate the width of the front (Garnett's Brigade again) : 1480 folks total, so 740 folks wide, and let's say 3 feet per person that's 2,220 feet. Or 0.41 miles.

So you look at that feet marker up there (right above the "Map prepared by Steven Stanley" bit) and you realize that something is wrong, if you compare that to the drawn Garnett line (which was the smallest of the 3 Picketts' Brigades to begin with)

21st Century to the rescue. Mapmyrun.com. Great site that calculates distances based on aerial image data. Here is what .41 miles look at that area of the Battlefield:

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So... If Garnett's Brigade was 2 men deep, it's front would be all the way from Spangler's farm to right about the Codori House and about 2.5 times the width shown in Stanley's map.

Now take that and extend it that much and a tad more to account for Kemper's Brigade the other side of the path...

Or imagine where the "obliques" would hit at their ends

Something's got to give :smile:
 

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According to Nothing But Glory and their calculations, Garnett had about 1850 men, not 1480 (with Kemper having about 1780 and Armistead just under 2200). But your point stands; Garnett's line should be twice as long as Fry's, not a comparable size.

R
 
According to Nothing But Glory and their calculations, Garnett had about 1850 men, not 1480 (with Kemper having about 1780 and Armistead just under 2200). But your point stands; Garnett's line should be twice as long as Fry's, not a comparable size.

R

There are a lot of stipulation about how many there were and lots of different numbers thrown out there. Like everything about this event there is a huge amount of uncertainty. I chose one of the numbers on the low side (the line would had been longer if I had chosen a higher number) and it happens to be the number that is listed on the battlefield marker as well...
 
The estimates I have read said that the front was about 1 mile long. I cannot recall any estimates on the depth, but if the front was 1 mile, based on the numbers involved, the depth was not great. I have also read that as they left the wood line the units maintained almost parade ground order and just before Emmitsburg Road the far right units actually did a turning movement to cluster more to the center. Finally, a documentary I saw during the 150 year anniversary said that the units actually "funneled" to a concentrated area due to breaks in the fences that were encountered. I have been suspect of this version due to the fact that much of that ground had been covered on day 2 and I think the fences would either be down by then or unit commanders would have had their solders go over or tear down a fence rather than break the movement order.

I agree that the 'charge' still holds unanswered mysteries. I have walked it before but am looking forward to walking it again in September with E_just_E.
 
When doing battle maps, I have found a 22 inch front per man to be fairly on the mark, and the men occupied two ranks. Then you must deduct one company per regiment, which deployed as skirmishers, or roughly 10 percent of each regiment's strength. Next come losses from artillery fire during the duel preceding the charge, which may be estimated based on extant accounts, taking into account that most of Armistead's brigade and also the left regiment (56th VA) of Garnett's brigade was partly shielded by the woods (the left of the 56th was in the corner of the woods, behind Woolfolk's battery). The initial deployment and early part of the charge may be calculated with considerable accuracy, because we know Kemper's brigade closed to the left to eliminate gaps (caused by the missing skirmish companies and artillery fire) before it advanced, and as it advanced, the 11th VA was split by the Rogers dwellings on the Emmitsburg road, and the 1st VA passed through Stribling's battery (which also locates the latter battery accurately).

Here are my estimates, from left to right, initial deployment of Garnett and Kemper, before its skirmishers moved out:

Unit / Men / Front (feet)

56 VA / 256 / 235
28 VA / 306 / 280
19 VA / 288 / 264
18 VA / 277 / 254
8 VA / 189 / 173

3 VA / 296 / 271
7 VA / 302 / 277
1 VA / 185 / 170
11 VA / 325 / 298
24 VA / 358 / 328
 
So we are looking at .23 miles for Garnett's front, which will take it from the path of Spangler's farm to the fence, pretty much (or twice as long as in Stanley's map,) and an oblique would have the right of the 8th (Garnett's right) right at the intersection of that path and Emmitsburg Road.

(One thing: There were no skirmishers on this move.)
 
When doing battle maps, I have found a 22 inch front per man to be fairly on the mark, and the men occupied two ranks. Then you must deduct one company per regiment, which deployed as skirmishers, or roughly 10 percent of each regiment's strength. Next come losses from artillery fire during the duel preceding the charge, which may be estimated based on extant accounts, taking into account that most of Armistead's brigade and also the left regiment (56th VA) of Garnett's brigade was partly shielded by the woods (the left of the 56th was in the corner of the woods, behind Woolfolk's battery). The initial deployment and early part of the charge may be calculated with considerable accuracy, because we know Kemper's brigade closed to the left to eliminate gaps (caused by the missing skirmish companies and artillery fire) before it advanced, and as it advanced, the 11th VA was split by the Rogers dwellings on the Emmitsburg road, and the 1st VA passed through Stribling's battery (which also locates the latter battery accurately).

Here are my estimates, from left to right, initial deployment of Garnett and Kemper, before its skirmishers moved out:

Unit / Men / Front (feet)

56 VA / 256 / 235
28 VA / 306 / 280
19 VA / 288 / 264
18 VA / 277 / 254
8 VA / 189 / 173

3 VA / 296 / 271
7 VA / 302 / 277
1 VA / 185 / 170
11 VA / 325 / 298
24 VA / 358 / 328


I have several battlefield maps from the Civil War trust. I started collecting maps of the battles involving my ancestors and it just grew from there.
 
So we are looking at .23 miles for Garnett's front, which will take it from the path of Spangler's farm to the fence, pretty much (or twice as long as in Stanley's map,) and an oblique would have the right of the 8th (Garnett's right) right at the intersection of that path and Emmitsburg Road.

(One thing: There were no skirmishers on this move.)

Right, if you put Garnett's left near the point of the woods (to the right and above the last "T" in PICKETT on Stanley's map), then Kemper's right would reach near the top of the "A" in LANG on that map. In that alignment, the two brigades are hidden from view from the Federal position because of the terrain undulations. The two brigades are joined in a single straight line; there is no space between them.

Armistead's brigade's position is pretty accurately depicted on Stanley's map, except that it extends about twice the length shown on that map, so that the left reaches the end of the wood line above the last "T" in PICKETT, and the right reaches the fence running WNW from the Spangler farm, with the far left of the 9th VA still in the woods and the right of the 9th VA in the open. Thus while the 14th VA and most of the 9th VA were fully exposed to enemy artillery fire; the remainder of Armistead's brigade had good protection provided by the timber.

Once Pickett's three brigades were in position, skirmishers were advanced from Garnett's and Kemper's brigades, and they moved up behind friendly artillery batteries, posted on the next elevation, west of the Emmitsburg road. So far I have identified only four companies that were selected as skirmishers:

A / 3 VA
D /11 VA
A/ 11 VA
H / 24 VA

In the advance the skirmishers moved straight ahead while the brigades behind them were constantly inclining to the left, so that the far right skirmish companies eventually fought independently out in the open field, without support.
 
Right, if you put Garnett's left near the point of the woods (to the right and above the last "T" in PICKETT on Stanley's map), then Kemper's right would reach near the top of the "A" in LANG on that map. In that alignment, the two brigades are hidden from view from the Federal position because of the terrain undulations. The two brigades are joined in a single straight line; there is no space between them.

Armistead's brigade's position is pretty accurately depicted on Stanley's map, except that it extends about twice the length shown on that map, so that the left reaches the end of the wood line above the last "T" in PICKETT, and the right reaches the fence running WNW from the Spangler farm, with the far left of the 9th VA still in the woods and the right of the 9th VA in the open. Thus while the 14th VA and most of the 9th VA were fully exposed to enemy artillery fire; the remainder of Armistead's brigade had good protection provided by the timber.

Once Pickett's three brigades were in position, skirmishers were advanced from Garnett's and Kemper's brigades, and they moved up behind friendly artillery batteries, posted on the next elevation, west of the Emmitsburg road. So far I have identified only four companies that were selected as skirmishers:

A / 3 VA
D /11 VA
A/ 11 VA
H / 24 VA

In the advance the skirmishers moved straight ahead while the brigades behind them were constantly inclining to the left, so that the far right skirmish companies eventually fought independently out in the open field, without support.

Pretty sure that the Garnett and Kemper brigade start points are about right on Stanley's map, anchored by the 8th for Garnett and 3rd for Kemper. Maybe these 2 were even closer. They were both lined East of Spangler's Farm, Garnett's right by his Orchard's fence (still there, but maybe a bit East more than it was back then.)

All those 4 companies are from Kemper's Brigade. There were Union skirmishers around the Codori property and I think that's what those companies tried to take care of. But I think that they moved later, after the whole division started to move. Codori's property is more than a mile away from where the 24th was lined up, for example.

There is other thing, which unlike positioning etc that is confused eyewitness account-based, is based on pure fact: The conventional Clump of Trees/High Tide mythology has the majority of Garnett's Brigade turning like it is pictured and crossing Emmitsburg Road and running up the Angle on the L (North) of the Codori property, with only the 8th going to the right. Then they try to break the Federal lines from the Angle to the Copse of Trees. So the 8 would hit the line at about where 59th NY and 69th PA were. The rest would be much more North, with the 28th dead smack at about the Angle and 14 CT maybe 71 PA. Here is where the fact comes in play: The flag of the 28th VA was captured by the 1st MN (a couple of Medals of Honor for it, btw) which did not move for 2 days and it has set up post way south of the Copse of Trees and S of the Codori property. And there is few more evidence that really opposes the convergence at the Copse of Trees mythology (which, btw, was started by someone who was not there on July 3, 1863...)

Anyways... I think that the Confederate front by the stone wall was much more wide than depicted. Just has to be.
 
Clump of Trees/High Tide mythology
You have said this before but I have not seen a source. If the attacking forces were not given 'some point' to focus on then are you saying they just, more or less, came across the field.

Perhaps this is one of the questions that needs more attention.

Anyways... I think that the Confederate front by the stone wall was much more wide than depicted. Just has to be.

Given the attrition due to Federal Artillery and to soldiers who simply decided not to go forward, I don't think the area has to be much wider than depicted.

To me, the more I look at it and think about it, it was just a mess. It is remarkable, imo, that as many ANV soldiers made it to the wall and actually broke through the AOP lines. Quite remarkable.
 
You have said this before but I have not seen a source. If the attacking forces were not given 'some point' to focus on then are you saying they just, more or less, came across the field.

Perhaps this is one of the questions that needs more attention..

Source = the battlefield :smile:

You cannot see the Copse of Trees from where Garnett and Kemper lined up.

And, yes, that's what I am pretty much saying. They came across the whole field, but fairly well organized. More of a straight on attack, vs "obliques etc..." and attacking a larger front than previously thought....
 
True, but you can as move across the field. I have always wondered if the commanders ,regiment and below. felt they going in blind. It all seemed rushed.

I think that they made it up as they were going. I also think that a lot used the Codori buildings for cover. Lots of the officers were behind the men (that was the standard position of sergeants and captains.) Colonels were by the color guard up front. Usually. Speculative, but it makes sense: there was likely a lot of ducking and falling on the ground and getting up and moving again. It is what you do, when cannons fire at you... So pretty much an organized mess :smile:
 
Sorry I missed it I would have liked that but thank you for doing this. If something like this was to come up again could you please contact me thank you.
 
I enjoy this topic and will continue to read prior to our get together next September. I do look forward to your guided tour and exchanging ideas.

Same here. I think that it will be fun. Hope not much of a guided tour but much more of a walk in the park and opinion exchange. That whole thing really baffles me :smile:

Promise I can give a guided tour of the Eisenhower's officer's Swimming Pool area though :wink: (or at least point it out when we are there. Someone has to remind me)
 
Pretty sure that the Garnett and Kemper brigade start points are about right on Stanley's map, anchored by the 8th for Garnett and 3rd for Kemper. Maybe these 2 were even closer. They were both lined East of Spangler's Farm, Garnett's right by his Orchard's fence (still there, but maybe a bit East more than it was back then.)

All those 4 companies are from Kemper's Brigade. There were Union skirmishers around the Codori property and I think that's what those companies tried to take care of. But I think that they moved later, after the whole division started to move. Codori's property is more than a mile away from where the 24th was lined up, for example.

There is other thing, which unlike positioning etc that is confused eyewitness account-based, is based on pure fact: The conventional Clump of Trees/High Tide mythology has the majority of Garnett's Brigade turning like it is pictured and crossing Emmitsburg Road and running up the Angle on the L (North) of the Codori property, with only the 8th going to the right. Then they try to break the Federal lines from the Angle to the Copse of Trees. So the 8 would hit the line at about where 59th NY and 69th PA were. The rest would be much more North, with the 28th dead smack at about the Angle and 14 CT maybe 71 PA. Here is where the fact comes in play: The flag of the 28th VA was captured by the 1st MN (a couple of Medals of Honor for it, btw) which did not move for 2 days and it has set up post way south of the Copse of Trees and S of the Codori property. And there is few more evidence that really opposes the convergence at the Copse of Trees mythology (which, btw, was started by someone who was not there on July 3, 1863...)

Anyways... I think that the Confederate front by the stone wall was much more wide than depicted. Just has to be.

Actually, the 1st MN turned north from their position and ended up around the copse. It's likely that the flag they captured was just south of the Angle, somewhere along the stone wall.

R
 
Actually, the 1st MN turned north from their position and ended up around the copse. It's likely that the flag they captured was just south of the Angle, somewhere along the stone wall.

R

That would make sense, but I'd love an eyewitness' reference on that. Stannard's Vermonters did turn up North to try to flank Kemper's Brigade, but that was much more South of there. If 1st MN would left there would be a hole there...
 
It is not a secret that I believer that the Confederate Assault of the Cemetery Ridge is still one of the largest mysteries out there as far as a single Civil War action goes (no conspiracy, just confusion, is the root of the mystery IMHO :smile: ) And it is kind of fun trying to put visuals, old testimonies and modern technology together to see what you get (or what you don't get.)
Awesome stuff Mr. E... love the enthusiasm and the mystery!
 
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