Petition to remove Stone Mountain Confederate Memorial

Yes it is all about context. You prefer a context that makes the Confederates appear to have been the good guys by carving them in mountains and having light shows.

Mark Jenkins wrote that he hasnt seen anyone defend the idea of erasing Stone Mountain. I'll stick my neck out.

It must be because of my brainwashing in school. See I was taught that this was a patriotic act:
pullingdownstatueofgeorge.jpg


And I remember how the media celebrated this:
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To me, its in the same category.


Could be, but I see dead dogma, indifference, the weigh of time and changing politics

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSH4D-SP1g8p9iXT8IOQ_EuIYvay_YflMC-ca5j7Pw31EPZ7yfj.jpg


and the every present business man with a hook into a politician ready to level it all for profit.
 
This proves that stupidity is not only a trait of the fools and idiots in other countries. We Americans seem to have a group of morons with too much time on their hands to develop inane ideas such as this.

I personally think them of honored opponents expressing their freedom to speech and to petition. Otherwise I have the image of all that American blood and treasure spent in protecting the freedom of morons.
 
Yes it is all about context. You prefer a context that makes the Confederates appear to have been the good guys by carving them in mountains and having light shows.

Mark Jenkins wrote that he hasnt seen anyone defend the idea of erasing Stone Mountain. I'll stick my neck out.

It must be because of my brainwashing in school. See I was taught that this was a patriotic act:
pullingdownstatueofgeorge.jpg


And I remember how the media celebrated this:
Expired Image Removed

To me, its in the same category.

So let the games, uh, uh, patriot acts begin. There is that Lincoln abomination at the former Tredegar Iron Works in Richmond and the new memorial to Sherman’s vandals at Bentonville for starters.

Deo Vindice
 
So let the games, uh, uh, patriot acts begin. There is that Lincoln abomination at the former Tredegar Iron Works in Richmond and the new memorial to Sherman’s vandals at Bentonville for starters.

Deo Vindice


Could be, but Stone Mountain looks and smells like a government boondoggle where the State of Ga laid out millions of dollars to please one set of its citizens and then proceeded to give a long term sweetheart deal that profits a private business.

As to Lincoln and Sherman, I like Paul Bear Bryant's tactic of making opponents look like supermen so when they got beat we looked like supermen and when we lost we still looked good rather than explaining to our children how we lost to abominations and vandals.

As a public service here is the Lincoln statue.

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The Union Monument at Bentonville​
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Instead of explosives, what about sanding them out? They're not that deep. Isn't there some kind of industrial smoothing technology that would grind out the relief carving, leaving a shallow depression in the rock face?
 
Yes it is all about context. You prefer a context that makes the Confederates appear to have been the good guys by carving them in mountains and having light shows.

Mark Jenkins wrote that he hasnt seen anyone defend the idea of erasing Stone Mountain. I'll stick my neck out.

It must be because of my brainwashing in school. See I was taught that this was a patriotic act:
pullingdownstatueofgeorge.jpg


And I remember how the media celebrated this:
Expired Image Removed

To me, its in the same category.

I think the difference, at least in the examples you chose, is that in both cases the statues were of the EXISTING, living monarch or ruler. True, they had their supporters at the times pictured, but the acts themselves were then-current political expressions by the populace. I think a more apt comparison would be the desecration of royal tombs by the French Revolutionaries and the tearing down of statues of Lenin and Stalin in former Communist bloc countries like Poland, in vain and misguided attempts to "erase" the past. The "trouble" with places like Stone Mountain, though, is that it is only one or a few segments of society that wish to do such a thing, and that there are descendants of those honoring and so honored that are still very much alive and interested in that past!
 
I think the difference, at least in the examples you chose, is that in both cases the statues were of the EXISTING, living monarch or ruler. True, they had their supporters at the times pictured, but the acts themselves were then-current political expressions by the populace. I think a more apt comparison would be the desecration of royal tombs by the French Revolutionaries and the tearing down of statues of Lenin and Stalin in former Communist bloc countries like Poland, in vain and misguided attempts to "erase" the past. The "trouble" with places like Stone Mountain, though, is that it is only one or a few segments of society that wish to do such a thing, and that there are descendants of those honoring and so honored that are still very much alive and interested in that past!


I disagree. There was no attempt to erase the past, but an attempt to remove the "boot" that an occupier placed upon the land to demonstrate his power.

It has been going on for thousands of years. A ancient ruler puts a Stele to commemorate his victory. The next fellow comes along and breaks up up. In fact the only extra-Biblical evidence is a piece of the Tel Dan Stele found in an ancient city wall.

I personally find honoring an amusement park and Stone Mountain Theme Park is an amusement park as part of honoring a culture, sacrifice of CSA military personnel and honoring a heritage, just a bit odd. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=Ue4Wxhg0UJGlCJOWzd2UjQ&bvm=bv.45921128,d.eWU
 
... I think a more apt comparison would be the desecration of royal tombs by the French Revolutionaries and the tearing down of statues of Lenin and Stalin in former Communist bloc countries like Poland, in vain and misguided attempts to "erase" the past. ...

Fair enough that it is a more apt comparison, but I find your use of the word "misguided" to be interesting.
Do you think the people of Poland should have kept and maintained all statues of Lenin and Stalin?
Maybe they should they be putting up new ones?
Would you think it less misguided if they celebrated Lenin-Stalin day instead?
 
Instead of explosives, what about sanding them out? They're not that deep. Isn't there some kind of industrial smoothing technology that would grind out the relief carving, leaving a shallow depression in the rock face?
Not sure if serious. It would of course open the door to removing every Confederate monument on most every Courthouse lawn in the South. Are you down with that?
 
Fair enough that it is a more apt comparison, but I find your use of the word "misguided" to be interesting.
Do you think the people of Poland should have kept and maintained all statues of Lenin and Stalin?
Maybe they should they be putting up new ones?
Would you think it less misguided if they celebrated Lenin-Stalin day instead?

No, not at all; I meant the idea that you could somehow change or eradicate the past by simply removing the symbol was misguided, not the removal itself. It's only natural that they would seek to remove the presence of a hated foriegn invader. But interestingly, that's somewhat the motive behind the creation of the Stone Mountain Memorial in the first place - a response to a hated foriegn invader. I agree that in recent years it has become largely a theme park, something like Six Flags ( minus of course, the other five flags! ); but originally it was intended as a Memorial to Confederate soldiers and their leaders, and it could be NO concidence that Georgia near Atlanta would be the location. It's too bad Gutzon Borglum's original design was scrapped in favor of the current "streamlined" ( read: cheaper ) version. Think how the opponents would howl at the serried ranks of Confederate soldiers marching up both sides of it beneath their battle-flags!
 
Fair enough that it is a more apt comparison, but I find your use of the word "misguided" to be interesting.
Do you think the people of Poland should have kept and maintained all statues of Lenin and Stalin?
Maybe they should they be putting up new ones?
Would you think it less misguided if they celebrated Lenin-Stalin day instead?


It should be up to the Poles, or anybody else, to celebrate whomever they like without outsider interference.

"You have no right to ask, or expect that she will at once profess unbounded love to that Union from which for four years she tried to escape at the cost of her best blood and all her treasure. Nor can you believe her to be so unutterably hypocritical, so base, as to declare that the flag of the Union has already surpassed in her heart the place which has so long been sacred to the Southern Cross. "
Wade Hampton
 
No, not at all; I meant the idea that you could somehow change or eradicate the past by simply removing the symbol was misguided, not the removal itself.

It is my impression that the cry about eradicating the past is only trotted out by those who like the monuments the way there are. I think you are putting motives on others that aren't there.
 
Lets not incite, please.

OK.
The whole idea of blasting away or grinding away is the wrong approach anyway, especially environmentally.

We should be filling in. What not fill in the carving with concrete or cement, then either:

a. rough the surface to give the illusion of Stone Mountain's natural state or (and I am extremely excited by this next idea)...

b. Paint a truly amazing mural over the concrete. Maybe a gigantic eye: Eye over Georgia. It would look so cool. Get the kids involved! Essay contests over a what the design should be. Or the space could be sold for major bucks to a corporate sponsor, Stone Mountain/Exxon, or something similar. What about painting the biggest Confederate flag ever seen!

The beauty of the filling in idea, is that, should we regret covering up Davis and the generals, we can always chip out the fill compound and restore the original carvings.

I'm a creative genius, its true. I'm going to bask in your awe and admiration for a while.
 
Hard to believe it's been thirty years since I saw the Confederate monument at Stone Mountain, GA.
The monument was owned by the state of Georgia and a petition or bill is not law, and unfortunately many people do not know the difference.
If old history is bad history, I'm sure we could expect a petition on the teaching of American history, before 1865.

And newbie politicians were always quick to get their name on the news or print. That fact hasn't changed. I'm too old to worry about some news, that some call news.
 
No, not at all; I meant the idea that you could somehow change or eradicate the past by simply removing the symbol was misguided, not the removal itself. It's only natural that they would seek to remove the presence of a hated foriegn invader. But interestingly, that's somewhat the motive behind the creation of the Stone Mountain Memorial in the first place - a response to a hated foriegn invader. I agree that in recent years it has become largely a theme park, something like Six Flags ( minus of course, the other five flags! ); but originally it was intended as a Memorial to Confederate soldiers and their leaders, and it could be NO coincidence that Georgia near Atlanta would be the location. It's too bad Gutzon Borglum's original design was scrapped in favor of the current "streamlined" ( read: cheaper ) version. Think how the opponents would howl at the serried ranks of Confederate soldiers marching up both sides of it beneath their battle-flags!

Dogma is the official system of belief or doctrine held by a religion, or a particular group or organization.[1] It serves as part of the primary basis of an ideology or belief system, and it cannot be changed or discarded without affecting the very system's paradigm, or the ideology itself. They can refer to acceptable opinions of philosophers or philosophical schools, public decrees, or issued decisions of political authorities.[2]

Looking at It serves as part of the primary basis of an ideology or belief system, and it cannot be changed or discarded without affecting the very system's paradigm, or the ideology itself. There was once an ideology about the South, maybe several The Lost Cause comes to mind naturally, that defined the heritage of the South. As long as it was being past from parents to children and confirmed by political leaders it was live dogma. Large numbers of people contributed and sacrificed to put those monuments up. They were a point of pride.

Dead dogma is when the ideology loses its life. No longer socially transmitted, politically affirmed or politically confirmed.

The Stone Mountain is an example of dead dogma, intended to be a Memorial to Confederate soldiers and their leaders, it exists not on personal contributions and sacrifice but on state subsidy and operation as a theme park. It is not a place of hallowed contemplation but of rides, soft drinks and cotton candy. The images are used for a laser light show and rock & roll music not subdued lighting and the Southern anthems. But most of all it is tolerated as normal.




Original design.

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Current image.

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Not sure if serious. It would of course open the door to removing every Confederate monument on most every Courthouse lawn in the South. Are you down with that?

Am I down with that? I'm double down with it: not just Confederate monuments: all Civil War monuments.

I'm so excited about the next idea, I'm hyper ventilating....OK...Ok..... I'm alright now.

There must be tens of thousands of bronze and stone infantry men, regiments of bronze horsemen, giant artillery parks of cannon scattered all over the US.

Are you ready for this? Or are you already thinking it?!

A diorama of a major Civil War battle, with the statues arranged in the formations the two sides were in on the day of battle. Scale: One to One. Each cannon representing: one cannon. Imagine the best visitor center diorama of all time; life size.

It would stretch for miles! Little paths for tourists to walk with interpretative panels, or audio tours. Segway and bike trails. Guides on little tractors towing those wheeled people carriers, like at Disney. Maintenance: minimal. After all the statues or designed to be outside!

Where? Vegas comes to mind, but considering the absolute economic tourism boom this will be, I vote for North Dakota. It would finally give people a reason to go there. But really, anywhere would do. Real question: which battle. Get the kids involved, essay contests etc. on which is the best battle to represent.
 
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