Tell me more! Pennsylvania Militia Epaulets

bobinwmass

Sergeant
Joined
Jul 14, 2019
Location
Western Massachusetts
My hunch is that these Pennsylvania militia epaulets are post Civil War. They were incorrectly attached to a National Lancers of Boston jacket that I posted about earlier this week, looking for feedback. The Pennsylvania buttons on the epaulets are actually wartime vintage. Tice, in his book "Uniform Buttons of the United States 1776-1865" indicates this type button is the standard Pennsylvania Civil War button, and buttons with this backmark of 2 circles of dots were made be Steele & Johnson from the 1850's to 1861. I know it's quite likely that surplus Civil War buttons could be used on later epaulets. At first I thought someone had used gold spray paint to color the white worsted tassels, but since they move freely, it is more likely they were dipped into some type of gold paint/dye. Anyone know of any examples of this being done during time of use or is it definitely some yahoo messing with them well after the fact? Based upon the colors, any guesses as to what militia group would have used these?

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My hunch is that these Pennsylvania militia epaulets are post Civil War. They were incorrectly attached to a National Lancers of Boston jacket that I posted about earlier this week, looking for feedback. The Pennsylvania buttons on the epaulets are actually wartime vintage. Tice, in his book "Uniform Buttons of the United States 1776-1865" indicates this type button is the standard Pennsylvania Civil War button, and buttons with this backmark of 2 circles of dots were made be Steele & Johnson from the 1850's to 1861. I know it's quite likely that surplus Civil War buttons could be used on later epaulets. At first I thought someone had used gold spray paint to color the white worsted tassels, but since they move freely, it is more likely they were dipped into some type of gold paint/dye. Anyone know of any examples of this being done during time of use or is it definitely some yahoo messing with them well after the fact? Based upon the colors, any guesses as to what militia group would have used these?

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I am not 100% sure, but the back is consistent with ones I ve dug in CW camp sites. I would venture to guess they are indeed CW or early post war.
 
Interesting. Did the ones you dug have that metal trim on the sides also?
Yes. But now that I ve taken a second look, the part that attaches the epaulet to the shoulder is different. A front and back photo of one I dug is attached.
Let’s ask Richard what he thinks .... paging @ucvrelics

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I ve just now noticed the small end of mine is more rounded where the Pennsylvania ones are square
I believe your dug item is more often referred to as a shoulder scale. Besides being somewhat decorative, they were also supposed to provide some protection from a downward saber strike. They did not have hanging fringe like an epaulet, and did attach with a locking tab as opposed to the long prong the epaulet had. But your shoulder scale is a really nice find!
 
These are tough as they crossover into the Indian war period until the mid 1870 when they started making them with the long brass bar. @Package4 would know about these.
 
My hunch is that these Pennsylvania militia epaulets are post Civil War. They were incorrectly attached to a National Lancers of Boston jacket that I posted about earlier this week, looking for feedback. The Pennsylvania buttons on the epaulets are actually wartime vintage. Tice, in his book "Uniform Buttons of the United States 1776-1865" indicates this type button is the standard Pennsylvania Civil War button, and buttons with this backmark of 2 circles of dots were made be Steele & Johnson from the 1850's to 1861. I know it's quite likely that surplus Civil War buttons could be used on later epaulets. At first I thought someone had used gold spray paint to color the white worsted tassels, but since they move freely, it is more likely they were dipped into some type of gold paint/dye. Anyone know of any examples of this being done during time of use or is it definitely some yahoo messing with them well after the fact? Based upon the colors, any guesses as to what militia group would have used these?

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Bob, your guess is right on the money! These are post war IW epaulets with war date surplus buttons. These were the standard epaulets for virtually every state NG just after the war into the 20th century. Yours most likely date closer to 67-72. Pennsylvania had a huge NG contingent post war.
 
Bob, your guess is right on the money! These are post war IW epaulets with war date surplus buttons. These were the standard epaulets for virtually every state NG just after the war into the 20th century. Yours most likely date closer to 67-72. Pennsylvania had a huge NG contingent post war.
Thank you @Package4 . Would you mind giving your opinion on the National Lancers jacket these were found on?
https://civilwartalk.com/threads/opinions-on-a-boston-national-lancers-jacket.184870/
 
Thank you @Package4 . Would you mind giving your opinion on the National Lancers jacket these were found on?
https://civilwartalk.com/threads/opinions-on-a-boston-national-lancers-jacket.184870/
Bob, there is a lot to like about the jacket, without seeing it in person it is really hard to tell. Since you are in MA, I would get in touch with Joel Bohy at Bruneau & Co. Auctioneers. Joel would be able to tell or if not would indicate an individual nearby that could. I am equally divided on the coat. My issue with these are the “improvements” made by previous collectors.

The lining of your coat has me puzzled, it appears like the lining of many post war coatees, but much of the construction screams pre war. Get in touch with Joel, he’s a great guy and probably not terribly busy, though Tim Prince told me that Antiques Roadshow was warming back up.
 
Bob, there is a lot to like about the jacket, without seeing it in person it is really hard to tell. Since you are in MA, I would get in touch with Joel Bohy at Bruneau & Co. Auctioneers. Joel would be able to tell or if not would indicate an individual nearby that could. I am equally divided on the coat. My issue with these are the “improvements” made by previous collectors.

The lining of your coat has me puzzled, it appears like the lining of many post war coatees, but much of the construction screams pre war. Get in touch with Joel, he’s a great guy and probably not terribly busy, though Tim Prince told me that Antiques Roadshow was warming back up.
Thanks again.
 
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