Origin of the Klan

diane

Retired User
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Location
State of Jefferson
Oh, there's a thread around here someplace on how old everybody is - I'm sure it will come up in the search feature if y'all really want to know. :smile:

Well, I don't think needing money from carpetbaggers was what got Forrest out of the klan! Forrest had plenty of interactions with Northerners and Republicans well before he left the klan - one of the first partnerships he made was with some Union soldiers to stake his plantation in Mississippi. It was Memphis dissolving itself to get out of paying off bonds that bankrupted him - he had a lot of bonds with the city to rebuild the railroad through there. Brownlow had been steadily dinging him for past infractions - like the outstanding warrant for his arrest from the war, which should have been dismissed along with everything else from the war. That happened, pretty much, at the federal level but didn't make it to Brownlow's fiefdom. Brownlow also did everything possible to thwart any political ambitions Forrest might have had. However, once the Parson was gone most of Forrest's reasons for being in the klan were also gone. I'm fairly certain he was quit at that time but may have been quietly supporting them for some time after.

But what about these tournaments? Is there more to it than recruitment, from your perspective? It seems you're suggesting something else maybe.
 

Hunter

First Sergeant
Joined
Apr 23, 2016
Oh, there's a thread around here someplace on how old everybody is - I'm sure it will come up in the search feature if y'all really want to know. :smile:

Well, I don't think needing money from carpetbaggers was what got Forrest out of the klan! Forrest had plenty of interactions with Northerners and Republicans well before he left the klan - one of the first partnerships he made was with some Union soldiers to stake his plantation in Mississippi. It was Memphis dissolving itself to get out of paying off bonds that bankrupted him - he had a lot of bonds with the city to rebuild the railroad through there.

He needed the money for construction of the railroad from Memphis to Alabama from state and local governments that were controlled by the Republican Party who saw him as the devil incarnate. Otherwise he would not have asked for it. It is very surprising that he got it, but was very common during this period for Republicans to condition their help to prominent former Confederates on the recipient making a public statement of some sort.


Brownlow had been steadily dinging him for past infractions - like the outstanding warrant for his arrest from the war, which should have been dismissed along with everything else from the war. That happened, pretty much, at the federal level but didn't make it to Brownlow's fiefdom. Brownlow also did everything possible to thwart any political ambitions Forrest might have had.

Forrest was not Brownlow's only target. Brownlow did not discriminate; he hated all Confederates. But so did many Tennessee Unionists, who responded favorably to Brownlow's newspaper editorials and speeches encouraging the creation of an environment so hostile that Confederates would leave the state.

However, once the Parson was gone most of Forrest's reasons for being in the klan were also gone. I'm fairly certain he was quit at that time but may have been quietly supporting them for some time after.

You may be right that he left the Klan at some point, but I have not yet come across any solid evidence of this or when it supposedly happened.

But what about these tournaments? Is there more to it than recruitment, from your perspective? It seems you're suggesting something else maybe.


Recruitment, inculcation of values, discipline, control, training, and practicing the art of fighting on horseback are the main purposes I see. Uncontrolled violence undermined the Democratic Party's political aspirations at the national level, and the South's ability to attract desperately needed capital from northern money markets. Control was, therefore, essential.

Hope this helps.
 

Drew

Major
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Recruitment, inculcation of values, discipline, control, training, and practicing the art of fighting on horseback are the main purposes I see. Uncontrolled violence undermined the Democratic Party's political aspirations at the national level, and the South's ability to attract desperately needed capital from northern money markets. Control was, therefore, essential.

Hope this helps.

This is a fascinating thread and I can't add much but will continue to read it. The bolded portion, above, looks to me to pretty well describe the Confederate Army. I'm not sure they needed coaching after the fact, from Forrest or anyone else.

Political discipline came with the 1876 election, but maybe that should be in a different thread. Carry on, by all means.
 

diane

Retired User
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Location
State of Jefferson
Recruitment, inculcation of values, discipline, control, training, and practicing the art of fighting on horseback are the main purposes I see. Uncontrolled violence undermined the Democratic Party's political aspirations at the national level, and the South's ability to attract desperately needed capital from northern money markets. Control was, therefore, essential.

Hope this helps.

Some of your post got stuck inside mine but I think I sorted it out. :laugh: The whole situation in Brownlow's Tennessee was very difficult for everybody. It is kind of an interesting thought to use these tournaments for the purposes you stated. I'd like to see a little more support for it but I understand you're sort of floating it out there. And it's just as hard to find evidence Forrest really did leave the klan as it is to find evidence he really did join it. I'm of the belief he didn't but they thought he did - they really needed someone like him to push them forward.
 

LoriAnn

Retired User
Joined
Oct 9, 2015
This is listed as 1870. Found it while searching "joust" during the 1800s. I've zoomed in, but I still can't tell if the men on horseback are in some kind of armor-like costume.

Woodward's Gardens, San Francisco

index.jpg


NYPL
 

diane

Retired User
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Location
State of Jefferson
This is listed as 1870. Found it while searching "joust" during the 1800s. I've zoomed in, but I still can't tell if the men on horseback are in some kind of armor-like costume.

Woodward's Gardens, San Francisco

index.jpg


NYPL

That's unique! Woodward's Gardens also housed the bear on the Bear Flag - Monarch.
 
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