"Order of Battle! Order of Battle!"

Hawkeye Brehm

Sergeant
Joined
Dec 19, 2017
Location
Myrtle Beach, SC
Okay, so the Licensed Battlefield Guides seem to have this obsession with the Order of Battle. If you ask them how to study for the LBG exam, or (in my case) tell them the manner in which you are studying for the exam, they chant "Order of Battle" like spectators at a Thugee ceremony watching a guy have his still-beating heart pulled out of his chest.

I guess my question is this: Is there only one way to know the Order of Battle? Because they act like I'm a complete moron for not wanting to sit there like some mindless idiot and memorize the Order of Battle until it's ingrained on my subconscious.

I'm studying the armies and their levels of organization by researching their experiences in the Eastern Theater. I began with broad studies of both armies, followed by researching the biographies and memoirs of army and corps commanders and their staff officers. I'm currently studying brigades, which will be followed by regiments before separate studies of artillery and cavalry in both armies.

One would think that in doing this, I would be gaining an understanding of those units, including how they came to be organized at Gettysburg and the experiences that shaped them as they marched toward Gettysburg. And when I do finally touch Gettysburg, I will be learning the ebb and flow of the battle at the army, corps, division, brigade, regimental, and individual levels.

But hey, I'm not an LBG, as they are so quick to point out. Their way is the only way they seem to be capable of going about this. I have been ridiculed and made out to be some "punk kid" who goes about everything the wrong way because it's not how the LBGs want people to do it. I definitely understand the Order of Battle is of immense importance, but I'd rather do this than mindlessly follow some retiree whose brain has calcified to the point that they've become little more than a monument to small-minded ignorance.

But yeah, any suggestions would be great.
 
Think of it like any other learning experience. They may be trying to let you know that is the basis of the exam. Remember in school learning so many thing that you probably never will use in your lifetime. Committing to memory so many tables and formulas, dates, equations, and so much more. Don't fight it, go with the flow. Nothing says you still can't do your thing while doing theirs also.
 
Think of it like any other learning experience. They may be trying to let you know that is the basis of the exam. Remember in school learning so many thing that you probably never will use in your lifetime. Committing to memory so many tables and formulas, dates, equations, and so much more. Don't fight it, go with the flow. Nothing says you still can't do your thing while doing theirs also.

Well, they kind of have. The phrase, "No real LBG would do that!" has been thrown in my face quite a bit. When I explain my process and reasoning, they tell me I'm wasting my time.
 
Since they control the rule book, play the game. Anything learned is not a waste of one's time.

They can control the exam, and they can control how the ALBG is run. They cannot sit there and tell me that because my way of studying for this thing is not theirs, I'm not going to pass the exam. I have heard from more than enough from the "community" in Gettysburg that I'm "in over my head" to know that regardless of what apparently anyone thinks, I actually know what I'm doing.

At least when all is said and done, I'll be able to say that I refused to be one of those who waited until they retired to do this.
 
My suggestion is similar to the one above: treat it like any other learning experience...with the understanding that everyone learns differently. I could recite the Gettysburg OOB with about 90% accuracy since I was in grade school, and Gettysburg isn’t even one of my main areas of interest.

How I was able to do this was, believe it or not, playing board games. I played games like Devils Den and Terrible Swift Sword about a million times. It certainly helped me understand the OOB as well as what bodies of troops entered the battlefield where, and when. Now with the internet at your fingertips most times you can quickly answer whatever questions you have on why a unit wasn’t with their brigade, why a brigade from one corps was supporting an entirely different corps instead of their own, etc.

Nowadays too if you don’t have an opponent or the space for an actual physical game with a mapboard and pieces, computer games are a great option, perhaps even a better one. For a learning tool I would suggest a game that is less “gamey” and more of a simulation. You’re not going to learn much about an OOB without an authentic and well researched game.
 
My suggestion is similar to the one above: treat it like any other learning experience...with the understanding that everyone learns differently. I could recite the Gettysburg OOB with about 90% accuracy since I was in grade school, and Gettysburg isn’t even one of my main areas of interest.

How I was able to do this was, believe it or not, playing board games. I played games like Devils Den and Terrible Swift Sword about a million times. It certainly helped me understand the OOB as well as what bodies of troops entered the battlefield where, and when. Now with the internet at your fingertips most times you can quickly answer whatever questions you have on why a unit wasn’t with their brigade, why a brigade from one corps was supporting an entirely different corps instead of their own, etc.

Nowadays too if you don’t have an opponent or the space for an actual physical game with a mapboard and pieces, computer games are a great option, perhaps even a better one. For a learning tool I would suggest a game that is less “gamey” and more of a simulation. You’re not going to learn much about an OOB without an authentic and well researched game.

I'm planning to add wargames to the process when I actually get to the Gettysburg portion of my studies. Right now, I'm not touching Gettysburg until I go through the modules I've created for myself.
 
They cannot sit there and tell me that because my way of studying for this thing is not theirs, I'm not going to pass the exam.

@Hawkeye Brehm, I mean no disrespect but from your OP it sounds like you are saying that this is exactly what "they' are already doing. My advice is to choose- 1. listen to the advice from those who know OR 2. don't listen and do it your way.
I offer this post simply because you have asked for suggestions.

some retiree whose brain has calcified

I also don't feel like it profits you to name call those who are providing insight. Again, my input since you solicited suggestions.
 
@Hawkeye Brehm, I mean no disrespect but from your OP it sounds like you are saying that this is exactly what "they' are already doing. My advice is to choose- 1. listen to the advice from those who know OR 2. don't listen and do it your way.
I offer this post simply because you have asked for suggestions.



I also don't feel like it profits you to name call those who are providing insight. Again, my input since you solicited suggestions.

Duly noted. I would add that those providing "insight" have dished out more than their share of "name calling". Tit for tat.
 
Okay, so the Licensed Battlefield Guides seem to have this obsession with the Order of Battle. If you ask them how to study for the LBG exam, or (in my case) tell them the manner in which you are studying for the exam, they chant "Order of Battle" like spectators at a Thugee ceremony watching a guy have his still-beating heart pulled out of his chest.

I guess my question is this: Is there only one way to know the Order of Battle? Because they act like I'm a complete moron for not wanting to sit there like some mindless idiot and memorize the Order of Battle until it's ingrained on my subconscious.

I'm studying the armies and their levels of organization by researching their experiences in the Eastern Theater. I began with broad studies of both armies, followed by researching the biographies and memoirs of army and corps commanders and their staff officers. I'm currently studying brigades, which will be followed by regiments before separate studies of artillery and cavalry in both armies.

One would think that in doing this, I would be gaining an understanding of those units, including how they came to be organized at Gettysburg and the experiences that shaped them as they marched toward Gettysburg. And when I do finally touch Gettysburg, I will be learning the ebb and flow of the battle at the army, corps, division, brigade, regimental, and individual levels.

But hey, I'm not an LBG, as they are so quick to point out. Their way is the only way they seem to be capable of going about this. I have been ridiculed and made out to be some "punk kid" who goes about everything the wrong way because it's not how the LBGs want people to do it. I definitely understand the Order of Battle is of immense importance, but I'd rather do this than mindlessly follow some retiree whose brain has calcified to the point that they've become little more than a monument to small-minded ignorance.

But yeah, any suggestions would be great.
I can't offer any suggestions, but I will offer some advice: Don't be intimidated by others. Find a way to meet your objective that works for you.
 
Getting over the "Tit for Tat" and back to learning the Order of Battle. If you don't know the participating units and their commanding officers how would you be able to be a Licensed Battlefield Guide and work within the world of Gettysburg tours? Your aversion to being "Like some mindless idiot and memorize the Order of Battle until it's ingrained on my subconscious." obviously indicates you will provide Battlefield Tours following your vision.

The fallacy of your post is seeking advice. You neither care or appreciate any comments and ideas and you will be the poorer for as wisdom is a valuable asset that should be collected and saved. One suggestion I would make is save this thread because one day it will make a sense and be a treasured list of ideas.

I wish you no ill will but desire you find the joy from sharing your knowledge and ideas with others as you have indicated.
 
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With your approach, you will eventually learn the order of battle and it will be more ingrained than just memorizing names and units. You are approaching the subject from the opposite direction, and that's difficult for a linear thinker to understand. It might be helpful to use your approach, but focus on one division or corps at a time, getting to know each of the leaders first, and then how they fit into the order of battle, before moving on to the next division or corps. But to pass the exam you have to understand what the exam expects you to know.

Having studied the battle seriously for 40 plus years, I might be ready to take the test by the year 2050. The problem is that something new, or a fresh perspective, appears nearly every day. Good luck!
 
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Getting over the "Tit for Tat" and back to learning the Order of Battle. If you don't know the participating units and their commanding officers how would you be able to be a Licensed Battlefield Guide and work within the world of Gettysburg tours? Your aversion to being "Like some mindless idiot and memorize the Order of Battle until it's ingrained on my subconscious." obviously indicates you will provide Battlefield Tours following your vision.

The fallacy of your post is seeking advice. You neither care or appreciate any comments and ideas and you will be the poorer for as wisdom is a valuable asset that should be collected and saved. One suggestion I would make is save this thread because one day it will make a sense and be a treasured list of ideas.

I wish you no ill will but desire you find the joy from sharing your knowledge and ideas with others as you have indicated.

I'm sorry. At what point did I say I wasn't interested in learning the Order of Battle?

The fallacy in your argument that I neither care nor appreciate what comments or ideas anyone has to offer is in the fact that l have already agreed with @Ataxerxes in his suggestion to use wargames as a means to better learn the Order of Battle. I wouldn't waste my breath or time asking if there was only one way to learn the Order of Battle if I seriously had no interest in getting an answer to my question. I have better things to do than ask questions for no reason.

I'll be sure to look you up in 2050 to see how you're coming along. :wink:
 
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With your approach, you will eventually learn the order of battle and it will be more ingrained than just memorizing names and units. You are approaching the subject from the opposite direction, and that's difficult for a linear thinker to understand. It might be helpful to use your approach, but focus on one division or corps at a time, getting to know each of the leaders first, and then how they fit into the order of battle, before moving on to the next division or corps. But to pass the exam you have to understand what the exam expects you to know.

Having studied the battle seriously for 40 plus years, I might be ready to take the test by the year 2050. The problem is that something new, or a fresh perspective, appears nearly every day. Good luck!

Thank you for answering my question, rather than telling me I have no interest in hearing comments and ideas not my own.

At present, my plan for when I finally do get to the Gettysburg portion of my studies is twofold: Break the Campaign down into sections and use an inverted pyramid method, going from the army level down to the regimental level. The purpose of this is to reinforce the events of each section, while adding depth and detail at each level of organization.

I'll definitely take your suggestion into consideration, though!
 
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Okay, so the Licensed Battlefield Guides seem to have this obsession with the Order of Battle. If you ask them how to study for the LBG exam, or (in my case) tell them the manner in which you are studying for the exam, they chant "Order of Battle" like spectators at a Thugee ceremony watching a guy have his still-beating heart pulled out of his chest.

I guess my question is this: Is there only one way to know the Order of Battle? Because they act like I'm a complete moron for not wanting to sit there like some mindless idiot and memorize the Order of Battle until it's ingrained on my subconscious.

I'm studying the armies and their levels of organization by researching their experiences in the Eastern Theater. I began with broad studies of both armies, followed by researching the biographies and memoirs of army and corps commanders and their staff officers. I'm currently studying brigades, which will be followed by regiments before separate studies of artillery and cavalry in both armies.

One would think that in doing this, I would be gaining an understanding of those units, including how they came to be organized at Gettysburg and the experiences that shaped them as they marched toward Gettysburg. And when I do finally touch Gettysburg, I will be learning the ebb and flow of the battle at the army, corps, division, brigade, regimental, and individual levels.

But hey, I'm not an LBG, as they are so quick to point out. Their way is the only way they seem to be capable of going about this. I have been ridiculed and made out to be some "punk kid" who goes about everything the wrong way because it's not how the LBGs want people to do it. I definitely understand the Order of Battle is of immense importance, but I'd rather do this than mindlessly follow some retiree whose brain has calcified to the point that they've become little more than a monument to small-minded ignorance.

But yeah, any suggestions would be great.
Just out of curiosity, how much longer do you think it will be before you take the exam?
 
Read about a guy once who took the test and recalled a question that he was proud to get right. He felt like he might have been the only one who knew the answer.
That question:

What is the name for the dividers in the ammunition chest on a limber?
 
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