Oops, big lump of your posts....

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unionblue

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There was no rebellion.

So, all those war-like acts prior to Lincoln taking the oath of office were what? Frolics with gunfire?

Lincoln was the only one to use that as an excuse for power.

Davis did the same thing, but he is South of the Mason-Dixon and gets a pass somehow.

It was secession per the 10th Amendment as history has shown.
10th Amendment shows no such thing. Never did, never will.
 

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unionblue

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Lincoln had no authority, none, to suspend habeus.

Congress said he did.

That is exclusively the responsibility of the legislature.

Congress said he did.

The plea of "necessity" is the tyrant's plea.
Davis suspended habeas corpus out of "necessity." Was he a tyrant too?
 

Kelly

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Davis suspended habeas corpus out of "necessity." Was he a tyrant too?
What do you mean Davis suspended Habeus Corpus? How can that be? Under what authority? Don't you argue that the CSA was not an independent nation? Don't you argue that the CSA never existed? Don't you argue that the South was merely in rebellion? If all that is true, how could Davis suspend Habeus Corpus?
 

unionblue

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What do you mean Davis suspended Habeus Corpus?

Check it out or google it, he did such.

How can that be? Under what authority?

Sorry to bring such news, but President Davis did ask for the suspenion of habeas corpus. Things became so bad that it became a military necessity. Like I said, it's part of history.

Don't you argue that the CSA was not an independent nation?

It wasn't, as it was never recognized as such by anyone.

Don't you argue that the CSA never existed?

There was an ATTEMPT to establish the CSA by violence and rebellion, but it never achieved such status as an existing, established nation.

Don't you argue that the South was merely in rebellion?

Yep.

If all that is true,

It is.

how could Davis suspend Habeus Corpus?
He did. Like I said, google it and read about it yourself.

Unionblue
 
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I believe your premise is wrong, But, even if it was correct, it would be irrelevant to my point.

The question remains, What was it that identified Ky. as South and Ohio North, of an artificial political line drawn on a Map, and, how could anyone easily identify a town or its population in one state from the other just a short distance across their state lines from each other, except for slavery and its effects?
Could be any number of reasons. In Alabama there is a town called “Palmerdale”. Just across the county line is a town called “Remlap”. Remlap is Palmer spelled backward. Legend has it that the palmer brothers had a falling out. Could have been over a girl but the fact is that they are “self identified” as in the case of a similar state . “west” Virginians were more anti secession than anti slavery but identified more with the north than the south. West Virginia was heavily invested in private railroad and mineral infrastructure and did not have as much in common with Virginia as Pennsylvania .
Also folks in Cincinnati and Cleveland were probably more different from each other than folks in Cincinnati and Louisville were from each other.
 

ebg12

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What do you mean Davis suspended Habeus Corpus? How can that be? Under what authority? Don't you argue that the CSA was not an independent nation? Don't you argue that the CSA never existed? Don't you argue that the South was merely in rebellion? If all that is true, how could Davis suspend Habeus Corpus?
The Southern people were in rebellion in the United States between 1861 to 1865.
The Southern States were never sovereign from the Union.
Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee were United States Citizens in defiance to United States Law.
Jefferson Davis was not a "President" of a sovereign nation because the CSA did not exist.
Robert E. Lee was not a commissioned officer in a sovereign nation's army because the CSA did not exist.
 
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ErnieMac

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***Posted as Moderator***
The original intent was to discuss attributes common to both North and South from 1850-1860.
Some have provided lists, others detailed discussion points including contrasting differences.
Please keep in mind the original intent when joining the discussion.
 

ebg12

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The Southern people were in rebellion in the United States between 1861 to 1865.
The Southern States were never sovereign from the Union.
Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee were United States Citizens in defiance to United States Law.
Jefferson Davis was not a President of a sovereign nation because the CSA did not exist.
Robert E. Lee was not a commissioned officer in a sovereign nation's army because the CSA did not exist.
Treason trials of both Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee was not in the best interest of the United States after the civil war.
 

O' Be Joyful

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Also folks in Cincinnati and Cleveland were probably more different from each other than folks in Cincinnati and Louisville were from each other.
Yep, Good point, Gene.

Mostly from Connecticut; the Western Reserve.

Connecticut_Western_Reserve_map.jpg


The Connecticut Western Reserve (also known as the Western Reserve) was an area in the Northwest Territory held, sold and distributed by the State of Connecticut in the years after the American Revolution.
Connecticut was one of several states that had land claims in the Ohio Country going back to the colonial period. Connecticut gave up most of its claims to the federal government so that the Northwest Territory could be created. However, it reserved the northeast corner of the territory for itself. This area came to be known as the Connecticut Western Reserve.
The Western Reserve had two parts. The western part of the region was known as the Fire Lands. The state gave plots of land in this area to people who had lost their property in the American Revolution. The Connecticut government sold the eastern portion of the reserve to the Connecticut Land Company in 1795. The $1.2 million earned through the land sale was spent on public education in the state of Connecticut.
 
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The Southern people were in rebellion in the United States between 1861 to 1865.
The Southern States were never sovereign from the Union.
Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee were United States Citizens in defiance to United States Law.
Jefferson Davis was not a "President" of a sovereign nation because the CSA did not exist.
Robert E. Lee was not a commissioned officer in a sovereign nation's army because the CSA did not exist.
And that is the question at its base. Rebellion or Secession debated ad nauseam on here, books, podcasts, CW talks, Lectures, etc. I plan on asking the almighty one day, I feel confident he will shoot straight.
 

O' Be Joyful

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The $1.2 million earned through the land sale was spent on public education in the state of Connecticut.
A good deal, IMHO. Future thinkers and abolitionists were waiting to be educated and trained, Wooden Nutmegs, on occasion...are...put to good use.
 
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ebg12

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Had the trappings of a nation. Geographic area, political system, a legal system, and a military sufficient to enforce political will.
but so did other rebellions in others countries now and the past had, but that does not make them sovereign. What about being recognized as a nation by other nations. World opinion counts?
 
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The Southern people were in rebellion in the United States between 1861 to 1865.
The Southern States were never sovereign from the Union.
Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee were United States Citizens in defiance to United States Law.
Jefferson Davis was not a President of a sovereign nation because the CSA did not exist.
Robert E. Lee was not a commissioned officer in a sovereign nation's army because the CSA did not exist.
Treason trials of both Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee was not in the best interest of the United States after the civil war.
The 13 Colonies were not a sovereign nation, but was/were in defiance of British law...ect ect ect..
George Washington was nnot a commissioned officer as the United States did not exist..blahblah


Simply put, "to the victor belong the spoils"...New York Senator William L. Marcy
 
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