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E_just_E

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By 1860 many if not most slaves had converted. It was their freedom in the present.
Being Christian and Western European did not stop differences in Western Europe from starting European wars.
What about native Americans, Mexicans, Spaniards , creoles, Asians, Eastern Europeans and Russians, were they Western European ?

Definition of Ethnicity
Ethnicity denotes groups, such as Irish, Fijian, or Sioux, etc. that share a common identity-based ancestry, language, or culture. It is often based on religion, beliefs, and customs as well as memories of migration or colonization (Cornell & Hartmann, 2007).

Did germans share the same ancestry, language, religion , and culture of the Irish ? Or English ? Swedes and French ? Russian and Jew ? Did they all migrate for the same reasons ?

It is co-operation in spite of this diversity and difference that makes us the “Great Melting Pot” of the world.
Even Cornell & Hartmann can make mistakes with their examples. There is no such a thing as a single "Sioux" people, other than in the minds of early 1800s mostly French Canadian fur traders who gave them that name, a corruption of the French word for 'snake'. Even Lewis & Clark recognized them as independent tribes per their memoirs.
 
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WJC

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By 1860 many if not most slaves had converted. It was their freedom in the present.
Being Christian and Western European did not stop differences in Western Europe from starting European wars.
What about native Americans, Mexicans, Spaniards , creoles, Asians, Eastern Europeans and Russians, were they Western European ?

Definition of Ethnicity
Ethnicity denotes groups, such as Irish, Fijian, or Sioux, etc. that share a common identity-based ancestry, language, or culture. It is often based on religion, beliefs, and customs as well as memories of migration or colonization (Cornell & Hartmann, 2007).

Did germans share the same ancestry, language, religion , and culture of the Irish ? Or English ? Swedes and French ? Russian and Jew ? Did they all migrate for the same reasons ?
Thanks for your response.
I did not suggest homogeneity. In keeping with the OP's desire to list common attributes, I said "mainly" and "generally".
 

Gene Green

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Even Cornell & Hartmann can make mistakes with their examples. There is no such a thing as a single "Sioux" people, other than in the minds of early 1800s mostly French Canadian fur traders who gave them that name, a corruption of the French word for 'snake'. Even Lewis & Clark recognized them as independent tribes per their memoirs.
That is my point concerning Americans too. Maybe you could call us the Nioux Sioux or the Swannabees.

Webster’s 1828 edition of the American Dictionary of the English Language defines America and American as :
AMER'ICAN, adjective Pertaining to America.
AMER'ICAN, noun A native of America; originally applied to the aboriginals, or copper-colored races, found here by the Europeans; but now applied to the descendants of Europeans born in America.
[my edit: this is not limited to english or europeans]
And
AMER'ICA, noun [from Amerigo Vespucci, a Florentine, who pretended to have first discovered the western continent.] [my edit: vespucci sighted south america when he named it "America"]


One of the great continents, first discovered by Sebastian Cabot, June 11, O.S. 1498, and by Columbus, or Christoval Colon, Aug. 1, the same year. It extends from the eightieth degree of North, to the fifty-fourth degree of South Latitude; and from the thirty-fifth to the one hundred and fifty-sixth degree of Longitude West from Greenwich, being about nine thousand miles in length. Its breadth at Darien [Panama] is narrowed to about forty-five miles, but at the northern extremity is nearly four thousand miles. From Darien to the North, the continent is called North america and to the South, it is called South america

It is hard to keep consistent that which is different and ever changing.
We are called "American" but have many more differences than the Sioux which is three different ethnic and linguistic groups and seven nations . our co-operation beyond our own group is what expanded and built our culture and is why we overpowered the sioux and also the confederates for that matter.
 
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E_just_E

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We are called "American" but have many more differences than the Sioux which is three different ethnic and linguistic groups and seven nations . our co-operation beyond our own group is what expanded and built our culture and is why we overpowered the sioux and also the confederates for that matter.
The confederates self identified as Americans (that A in CSA) as well. So do the Mexicans, Canadians, Argentinians, Colombians, and all the inhabitants of North, Central, and South America...
 

James Lutzweiler

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The confederates self identified as Americans (that A in CSA) as well. So do the Mexicans, Canadians, Argentinians, Colombians, and all the inhabitants of North, Central, and South America...
Good grief! We all had a lot in common and still do! Thanks for this suggestive post.
 
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James Lutzweiler

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Even Cornell & Hartmann can make mistakes with their examples. There is no such a thing as a single "Sioux" people, other than in the minds of early 1800s mostly French Canadian fur traders who gave them that name, a corruption of the French word for 'snake'. Even Lewis & Clark recognized them as independent tribes per their memoirs.
Were Lewis and Clark and the Sioux Northerners or Southerners? See OP.
 

WJC

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***Posted as Moderator***
Again, the topic is "What did the North and South Have in Common from 1850-1860?" Please restrict posts to discussing common factors. Off-topic posts will be edited or deleted.

 

Gene Green

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The confederates self identified as Americans (that A in CSA) as well. So do the Mexicans, Canadians, Argentinians, Colombians, and all the inhabitants of North, Central, and South America...
I agree and how much do Canadians and Argentinians have in common ?
Even if you consider just the English you have to ask were they Anglo-Saxon or Anglo-Norman ? Much of their differences in England brought them here and there were some of each. They co-operated here in a manner that they would not in England .
 
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ebg12

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You are mistaken. An American president is bound by a federal court's decision. He may appeal, but this is how it works. He doesn't get to ignore the Court once a decision is rendered.

Oh, except Lincoln.
All three branches of government are equal.

Politics decides if a President can oppose a court's decision.

We must not forget the Supreme Court Justices are men and not moral Gods. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and supreme power of writ over all branches of government by the Supreme Court would be too much for the nation.

The constitution isn't designed to allow 6 or 9 justices to have the final and only determination as to what the "law of the land will be."
If the supreme court had power of writ over executive powers and congress, then the nation would be a dictatorial system of government ruled by only 6 or 9 men that were Kings for Life.

That is why the power of writ is held by the lower courts, and basically only the Supreme Court has the power of review. It is not unconstitutional for the President and Congress to decide what the law of the land will be without the Supreme Court blessing.

Lincoln opponents always criticize him as being an abuser of executive power, but never seem to acknowledge that the power of writ over the executive branch wouldn't be an abuse of power by the Supreme Court.
 
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James Lutzweiler

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The lies were mostly those of omission, rather than commission. But, the omissions were of Slavery Not TRR;'s.
My scope of Secesh Declarations is a bit more broad. While it certainly includes and prioritizes SC's in December 1860, it does not neglect all the expressions for secession between 1850-1860. Most posters I have read omit all of those entirely, and that is my primary point. That decade was larded heavily with the relationship between secession and the TRR. Read Albert Pike's essay in De Bow for an example.
 

OpnCoronet

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Alexander Stephens, VP of the Confederacy, was perfectly willing to see the CSA, go down to defeat, in a sea of blood if necessary, rather than see one jot or tittle of the Confederate Constitution, ignored or violated.

In his Address to Congress in Special Session, I believe, Lincoln, noted that all Nations possess(and can use) all the power necessary to defend itself, if necessary. But, in his opinion, that exercise of power was not necessary, because he believed all the power necessary was already in the Constitution. It had only to be exercised by the proper authority, provided by the Constitution itself.
 
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Rebforever

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All three branches of government are equal.

Politics decides if a President can oppose a court's decision.

We must not forget the Supreme Court Justices are men and not moral Gods. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and supreme power of writ over all branches of government by the Supreme Court would be too much for the nation.

The constitution isn't designed to allow 6 or 9 justices to have the final and only determination as to what the "law of the land will be."
If the supreme court had power of writ over executive powers and congress, then the nation would be a dictatorial system of government ruled by only 6 or 9 men that were Kings for Life.

That is why the power of writ is held by the lower courts, and basically only the Supreme Court has the power of review. It is not unconstitutional for the President and Congress to decide what the law of the land will be without the Supreme Court blessing.

Lincoln opponents always criticize him as being an abuser of executive power, but never seem to acknowledge that the power of writ over the executive branch wouldn't be an abuse of power by the Supreme Court.
It wasn't just about the writ. There were 4 other Constitutional laws broken as previously posted on this thread.

add-
1st Amendment
4th Amendment
9th Amendment
10th Amendment

Basically, he shunned the US Constitution all together.
 

unionblue

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It wasn't just about the writ. There were 4 other Constitutional laws broken as previously posted on this thread.

add-
1st Amendment
4th Amendment
9th Amendment
10th Amendment


Basically, he shunned the US Constitution all together.
@Rebforever ,

Specific example of such violations of each amendment you mention above would be appreciated.

If you cannot supply such, all will be forced to recognize your post as a personal opinion and not historical fact.

Sincerely,
Unionblue
 

ebg12

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It wasn't just about the writ. There were 4 other Constitutional laws broken as previously posted on this thread.

add-
1st Amendment
4th Amendment
9th Amendment
10th Amendment


Basically, he shunned the US Constitution all together.
Yes, he did suspend all those amendment in the North and South.
But the Constitutional question is "was it necessary in a time of rebellion for the more important aim of Preserving the Union?"
And the Constitution does give him the right to do so in time of rebellion.
 
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leftyhunter

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I think as far as whether he had the right in Baltimore, I question his right to EXPAND it from Washington to Maine. That is what created arrest and turning the entire Union into a Federal Police state. Friends on Friends, Neighbors on Neighbors, ran by the Army at the Presidents will.
Didn't the Confederacy imprison those who it suspected of disloyalty to the Confederate cause I.e. Parson Brownlow". The Confederacy definitely had political prisoners and was more then willing to punish dissenters with out trial has pointed out in previous threads regarding the torture of women hiding conscript evaders.
Leftyhunter
 

Rebforever

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Yes, he did suspend all those amendment in the North and South.
But the Constitutional question is "was it necessary in a time of rebellion for the more important aim of Preserving the Union?"
And the Constitution does give him the right to do so in time of rebellion.
There was no rebellion. Lincoln was the only one to use that as an excuse for power. Edited.
 

Desert Kid

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The Arizona settlers were very pragmatic.
The towns that made up the territory were as follows:

Mesilla (modern Las Cruces, NM)
Pinos Altos (modern Silver City, NM)
Mowry City (modern Deming, NM)
Apache Pass (modern Bowie, AZ)
Camp Goodwin (modern Fort Thomas, AZ. My dad's family was already there at the time)
Fort Breckinridge (modern Fort Grant, AZ)
Tucson, AZ
Tubac, AZ
Gila City, AZ (modern Yuma, AZ)

Needless to say, when the Federals left, the Apaches came out to play.
 
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