Oops, big lump of your posts....

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jgoodguy

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VIRGINIA’S RELUCTANT SECESSION
Volume 5, Issue Number 4 (May, 2002) of North & South Magazine (pages 80-89) article w the same title
P80

After Lincoln's call for the 75,000, no decision was made until ex-Governor Henry Wise ordered an unauthorized attack on Federal army and naval installations(army facility at Harpers Ferry and the naval installation at the Gosport Yards. ), bring a war to VA.

Great epics need colorful stars as well as sweeping importance. Here again, Virginia's decision to secede met requirements. At the key moment, ex-Governor Henry Wise, arguably the most important Virginia politician between the Washington-Jefferson-Madison era and Woodrow Wilson's, put on his most incredible show.2 Wise, an emaciated spellbinding demagogue, had long courted the Virginia commoners shamelessly, securing both their adoration and the aristocracy's contempt. But after President Lincoln called out 75,000 troops to subdue the Confederates on April 15, 1861, and after the Virginia secession convention continued to talk indecisively, HenryWise,Virginia best talker, became the man disgusted with too much democratic talk. The ex-governor unconstitutionally seized the sitting governor's prerogatives. He illegally ordered state troops to capture federal army and naval installations. He thus shamed Virginia's procrastinators into deciding which army to join.
From VIRGINIA’S RELUCTANT SECESSION
Wise tells the convention that he has declared war on the Federal government, either kill him or secede.
Then on April 17, right after Robert Scott’s narrow loss and at the very moment the unauthorized seizures were occurring, Wise rose in the convention. He placed his huge horse pistol before him. He snapped open his pocket watch and announced in hushed tones that at this hour, by his command, Virginia was at war with the federal government. If anyone wished to shoot him for treason, they would have to wrestle away his pistol. Ten feet in front of Wise, ex-President John Tyler turned his chair around, tears streaming down his worn face, to cheer as the spellbinder ripped into the stalling Unionists. To an eyewitness, Wise seemed ‘supernaturally excited. His features were as sharp and rigid as bronze. His hair stood off from his head, as if charged with electricity.’ Why can’t you realize, he shouted as his foes, now as ‘white and pale as the wall,’ that Lincoln’s bloodthirsty proclamation makes waverers into traitors? The tyrant’s troops now menace your folks. You must now decide whether to kill your kin. You must decide whether to return the murder weapons that I have ordered Virginia’s patriots to seize. You must now decide whether to secede from the despot or assassinate me.” [p. 87]​
 

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uaskme

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Good points. Clearly shows that 4 States seceded after Lincoln’s call for Troops. Lincoln’s failure to negotiate caused these states to leave. Lincoln had clearly decided it was to be War! Even after being attacked, Northern conspiracy involving Brown, VA still refused to leave. Lincoln had to coerce VA to leave. VA had previously rejected the extension of the Slave Trade. Tobacco production had been on the downfall since the Revolution. Slaves and Masters were constantly migrating from VA to the Lower South. VA also had long Debates concerning Abolition. So we can clearly see, Slavery was not the future for VA.

Wise was correct. Who should VA dance with. The North who had viciously attacked VA with John Browns Raid, and who’s people had ridiculed VA for 30 years, or her Southern Brothers? Lincoln had made his decision, VA had to make Hers!
 
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Good points. Clearly shows that 4 States seceded after Lincoln’s call for Troops. Lincoln’s failure to negotiate caused these states to leave. Lincoln had clearly decided it was to be War! Even after being attacked, Northern conspiracy involving Brown, VA still refused to leave. Lincoln had to coerce VA to leave. VA had previously rejected the extension of the Slave Trade. Tobacco production had been on the downfall since the Revolution. Slaves and Masters were constantly migrating from VA to the Lower South. VA also had long Debates concerning Abolition. So we can clearly see, Slavery was not the future for VA.

Wise was correct. Who should VA dance with. The North who had viciously attacked VA with John Browns Raid, and who’s people had ridiculed VA for 30 years, or her Southern Brothers? Lincoln had made his decision, VA had to make Hers!
Another blaming everything on Lincoln, who never fired a shot in anger, even long AFTER the South was doing it's best to start a war!

Kevin Dally
 

JPK Huson 1863

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What a chilling scene. When you read various histories there's this vague reference to what states seceded in what order but rarely how strident were war's voices. Had no clue Virginia's was the result of one man usurping power to that extent- sounds extraordinarily scary.

" Virginia's best talker ". Given how valued was oratory ( you don't know how anyone sat through all those speeches ), that's either high praise indeed or a warning to call in sick when he was likely to speak.
 
Good points. Clearly shows that 4 States seceded after Lincoln’s call for Troops. Lincoln’s failure to negotiate caused these states to leave. Lincoln had clearly decided it was to be War! Even after being attacked, Northern conspiracy involving Brown, VA still refused to leave. Lincoln had to coerce VA to leave. VA had previously rejected the extension of the Slave Trade. Tobacco production had been on the downfall since the Revolution. Slaves and Masters were constantly migrating from VA to the Lower South. VA also had long Debates concerning Abolition. So we can clearly see, Slavery was not the future for VA.

Wise was correct. Who should VA dance with. The North who had viciously attacked VA with John Browns Raid, and who’s people had ridiculed VA for 30 years, or her Southern Brothers? Lincoln had made his decision, VA had to make Hers!
Edited; inappropriate language

There was no "Northern conspiracy" nor did the "North" attack Virginia. That was the criminal actions of one man and his followers and was not sanctioned by any Northern state nor the Federal government.
 
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An ordinance is a law or decree issued by a state legislature or a local body of government and as such does not list the reasons in the ordinance that led to its enactment. In the case of the states that seceded, the causes and reasons were given by 4 states in their declaration of causes and found in the minutes of the legislative or convention debates of the remaining states.
 
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An ordinance is a law or decree issued by a state legislature or a local body of government and as such does not list the reasons in the ordinance that led to its enactment. In the case of the states that seceded, the causes and reasons were given by 4 states in their declaration of causes and found in the minutes of the legislative or convention debates of the remaining states.
Still no mention of slavery for whatever reason posted.
 
I don't really care. But the Truth is there that you disagreed with.
In Virginia's Ordinance of Secession, she lays out her legal reason for secession by stating
"The people of Virginia in their ratification of the Constitution of the United States of America, adopted by them in convention on the twenty-fifth day of June, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty-eight, having declared that the powers granted under said Constitution were derived from the people of the United States and might be resumed whensoever the same should be perverted to their injury and oppression, and the Federal Government having perverted said powers not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern slave-holding States:"

In her entire Ordinance she does not list any reason such as slavery or coercion, &c. for the cause of secession.


AN ORDINANCE to repeal the ratification of the Constitution of the United State of America by the State of Virginia, and to resume all the rights and powers granted under said Constitution

The people of Virginia in their ratification of the Constitution of the United States of America, adopted by them in convention on the twenty-fifth day of June, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty-eight, having declared that the powers granted under said Constitution were derived from the people of the United States and might be resumed whensoever the same should be perverted to their injury and oppression, and the Federal Government having perverted said powers not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern slave-holding States:

Now, therefore, we, the people of Virginia, do declare and ordain, That the ordinance adopted by the people of this State in convention on the twenty-fifth day of June, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty-eight, whereby the Constitution of the United States of America was ratified, and all acts of the General Assembly of this State ratifying and adopting amendments to said Constitution, are hereby repealed and abrogated; that the union between the State of Virginia and the other States under the Constitution aforesaid is hereby dissolved, and that the State of Virginia is in the full possession and exercise of all the rights of sovereignty which belong and appertain to a free and independent State.

And they do further declare, That said Constitution of the United States of America is no longer binding on any of the citizens of this State.

This ordinance shall take effect and be an act of this day, when ratified by a majority of the voter of the people of this State cast at a poll to be taken thereon on the fourth Thursday in May next, in pursuance of a schedule hereafter to be enacted.

Adopted by the convention of Virginia April 17,1861
 

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"The people of Virginia in their ratification of the Constitution of the United States of America, adopted by them in convention on the twenty-fifth day of June, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty-eight, having declared that the powers granted under said Constitution were derived from the people of the United States and might be resumed whensoever the same should be perverted to their injury and oppression
Does anyone, have handy, that particular excerpt from Virginia's original acceptance of the Constitution in 1788? I believe that they were disregarding a comma or two, in 1861.

As most of us know, the placement of commas are quite important to legal types, such as lawyers and say ...a court authority, like a judge, when evaluating the "meaning" of a legal document or interpretation of a law.
 
Does anyone, have handy, that particular excerpt from Virginia's original acceptance of the Constitution in 1788? I believe that they were disregarding a comma or two, in 1861.

As most of us know, the placement of commas are quite important to legal types, such as lawyers and say ...a court authority, like a judge, when evaluating the "meaning" of a legal document or interpretation of a law.

Ratification of the Constitution by the State of Virginia; June 26, 1788.

Virginia to wit

We the Delegates of the People of Virginia duly elected in pursuance of a recommendation from the General Assembly and now met in Convention having fully and freely investigated and discussed the proceedings of the Federal Convention and being prepared as well as the most mature deliberation hath enabled us to decide thereon Do in the name and in behalf of the People of Virginia declare and make known that the powers granted under the Constitution being derived from the People of the United States may be resumed by them whensoever the same shall be perverted to their injury or oppression and that every power not granted thereby remains with them and at their will: that therefore no right of any denomination can be cancelled abridged restrained or modified by the Congress by the Senate or House of Representatives acting in any Capacity by the President or any Department or Officer of the United States except in those instances in which power is given by the Constitution for those purposes: & that among other essential rights the liberty of Conscience and of the Press cannot be cancelled abridged restrained or modified by any authority of the United States. With these impressions with a solemn appeal to the Searcher of hearts for the purity of our intentions and under the conviction that whatsoever imperfections may exist in the Constitution ought rather to be examined in the mode prescribed therein than to bring the Union into danger by a delay with a hope of obtaining Amendments previous to the Ratification, We the said Delegates in the name and in behalf of the People of Virginia do by these presents assent to and ratify the Constitution recommended on the seventeenth day of September one thousand seven hundred and eighty seven by the Federal Convention for the Government of the United States hereby announcing to all those whom it may concern that the said Constitution is binding upon the said People according to an authentic Copy hereto annexed in the Words following; .

Done in Convention this twenty Sixth day of June one thousand seven hundred and eighty eight

By Order of the Convention

EDMD PENDLETON President [SEAL.]

Virginia towit:

Subsequent Amendments agreed to in Convention as necessary to the proposed Constitution of Government for the United States, recommended to the consideration of the Congress which shall first assemble under the said Constitution to be acted upon according to the mode prescribed in the fifth article thereof:

Videlicet;

That there be a Declaration or Bill of Rights asserting and securing from encroachment the essential and unalienable Rights of the People in some such manner as the following;

Remainder can be viewed at:
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/ratva.asp
 
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