Oops, big lump of your posts....

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unionblue

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Posters,

I am not familiar with most of UB's 28,000+ posts, though I do know a number of them have been directed against me. No problem.

Good, as not many of those 28,000 posts have anything to do with you or your continued insistence that the war was not over the issue of slavery.

But facts are facts, and I am compelled to confess that with this post he has served everyone now on this thread or who will yet come to it far better than James McPherson, William Freehling, Charles Dew, William Davis, and many others who pay scant attention to perhaps the most powerful and prolific of the fire-eating secessionists. Just pick up any typical book on the Civil War by any and all of the major writers and Pulitzer winners, et al., and look in the Indices for how many pages upon which the name of James D. B. De Bow or his magazine appear. That by itself will give you a mini-tutorial about the Civil War better than you could learn from in a three-hour semester course in the subject at Duke, Princeton, or Yale.

DeBow trumps all?

For that service to all, I nominate UB for a Pulitzer and an honorary doctorate.

As with @Viper21 I am compelled to decline such 'honor' bestowed on me for the wrong reasons. I have not come to bury slavery nor praise the TRR.


Should you consult De Bow's Review, remember this: (1) The journal was launched because of the TRR, NOT slavery; (2) Every issue from January 1846 that carried the mileage from Charleston to China is like a railroad box car, carrying invisible thoughts about slavery, cotton, internal improvements, and whatever else you can think of. Cotton did not carry these thoughts to antebellum Southern readers. De Bow's TRR-based magazine did. Slaves did not carry thoughts. They picked and carried cotton. De Bow himself was like a literary locomotive, traversing the entire intellectual landscape with secessionist and independence thoughts.

In one man's opinion. But, as that man suggests, on should read the articles and see where DeBow "jumps the track" sort of speak and decide for themselves what he ended up promoting.

I could say more.

Well said.

This is enough for now.

Many thanks.

I suggest you express thanks to Dr. Blue by hitting a LIKE on this post.

Please, don't bother, as James and I both know this is an insincere suggestion.

In rhyme,

Heavy on the sarcasm.

I propose a toast
To Dr. Blue's post.

To little or nothing important, other than one's own search to determine for themselves, the truth of history, vice the theory of the determined.

"Jimmy Burns"
The Schnappsburg Poet Laureate
My toast to you, James.

"History is not history, unless it is the truth."

Unionblue
 

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It is those who believe it was the "main cause" of the War who see the War as a "Treasury of Virtue" or a "Single Causer", not people who simply see it as one of the issues. I think everyone agrees that it played a part.
You are welcome to forward those names for the poll. Thank you for your thoughtful post!
 

DanSBHawk

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slave owners happy with the staus quo? Why were they investing in railroads?

His views were not getting attentionin the South? Just exactly how do you propose to prove that negative? Or do you not need proof?
Who was the historian you recommended that went into detail about the economics of the antebellum south? He was the one who detailed the obstacles DeBow encountered.
 

uaskme

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No, McClellan, with the governor's approval, just arrested the traitor secessionists from the state legislature that held a rump meeting to pull Maryland out of the Union.
A few Presidents had to sneak out of Washington. Lincoln is the only one in history who had to sneak in. Talk about a House Divided!
 
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You.

And I've already acknowledged that and thanked you. Do we need to do this every time it comes up?
Dr. Dan,

Thank you. Yes. Every time. It helps to soothe my wounded ego. Again, please!!!!

Glad you have enjoyed De Bow. Others will too, based on your testimonial. By your reference, you, too, have done more for these posts than McPherson, Freehling, Dew, et al.

Great talk,
Dr. Hawk!
 

DanSBHawk

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Dr. Dan,

Thank you. Yes. Every time. It helps to soothe my wounded ego. Again, please!!!!

Glad you have enjoyed De Bow. Others will too, based on your testimonial. By your reference, you, too, have done more for these posts than McPherson, Freehling, Dew, et al.

Great talk,
Dr. Hawk!
I would not put my contributions anywhere near those great historians, but thank you just the same.
 

major bill

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In 1862 when the American consul to the Kindom of Morocco heard Henry Myers and Tom Tate Turbstat insulted the United States, he asked that they be arrested. When the Morocco arrested them it caused some international problems. Raphael Semmes asked any Europen diplomat he could find in the Kingdom of Morocco to help get them resealed the Moroccans refused. Both the British and the French would not intervene as they did not recognize the Confederates as a nation.

Europeans living in Morocco staged a small riot, but the Moroccans were unmoved and and the captives were loaded aboard a US ship to be sent to prison in the US.

Lincoln ordered the prisoners be released rather than be sent to a US prison. Morocco forbid any Confederate ship from entering any of its ports.

For forum members aware of it, the Kindom of Morocco was a close friend of the United States. It appears the Kingdom of Morocco was the first nation to recognize the US as a nation early in the American Revolution.
 

E_just_E

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It appears the Kingdom of Morocco was the first nation to recognize the US as a nation early in the American Revolution.
Indeed. That was by the Moroccan/American Treaty of Friendship signed by future US Presidents John Adams and Thomas Jefferson in 1777.

Interestingly, Morocco was at war with Spain since 1860, so I wonder whether there was some expectation of US involvement there, based on this action.
 
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In 1861 we had a naval fleet in the Mediterranean commanded by Flag Officer Charles Bell. He was ordered in April and May of 1861 to bring the fleet into New York. At the time our fleet was witnessing a disturbance at Messina, Italy and the Sardinians. Also we were sailing the waters off Liberia looking for slave traders. Many ports of interest are mentioned by Flag Officer Bell, including Tunis, Cagliari, Spezia, Leghorn and Genoa. Also Cadiz and Gibraltar for coal replenishment for crossing the ocean.
Later on May 18, 1861 he writes to the Navy Department a warning of leaving the Mediterranean exposed, saying; "In ten days this ship will be on the Atlantic and then the Mediterranean will be entirely exposed to these marauders. There are now six American vessels in this port. I left several at Leghorn, and there are probably a number at Marseilles and Malaga."
I had not read of any mention of Morocco nor had I any knowledge of its existence. I am happy you brought it to light.
Time for the World Atlas, thanks;
Lubliner.
 
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In 1862 when the American consul to the Kindom of Morocco heard Henry Myers and Tom Tate Turbstat insulted the United States, he asked that they be arrested. When the Morocco arrested them it caused some international problems. Raphael Semmes asked any Europen diplomat he could find in the Kingdom of Morocco to help get them resealed the Moroccans refused. Both the British and the French would not intervene as they did not recognize the Confederates as a nation.

Europeans living in Morocco staged a small riot, but the Moroccans were unmoved and and the captives were loaded aboard a US ship to be sent to prison in the US.

Lincoln ordered the prisoners be released rather than be sent to a US prison. Morocco forbid any Confederate ship from entering any of its ports.

For forum members aware of it, the Kindom of Morocco was a close friend of the United States. It appears the Kingdom of Morocco was the first nation to recognize the US as a nation early in the American Revolution.
Very interesting and not well known incident. Some of our fellow poster's cite the UK and France having de facto recognition of the Confederacy . Certainly not seeing any evidence of that.
Leftyhunter
 
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