November 19th, 1863 Gettysburg, A Procession Through Time And A Question

Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

JPK Huson 1863

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Forum Host
Joined
Feb 14, 2012
Messages
18,974
Location
Central Pennsylvania
cemetery dedication corner.JPG

Gettysburg, November 19th 1863. The procession to the new Soldier's National Cemetery was captured by Brady, this is asnip from the famous ' troops marching into Gettysburg ' photo gives endless scope for examination. It's not troops marching in, it's part of the procession- but which part?

Disclaimer yes, this photograph has been examined to death and back here. Yes, with thousands of less famous photos, why re-hash just one? Because I still have questions, love to know a LOT more of Lincoln's stop in Gettysburg, November, 1863.

cemetery dedication nuns - Copy.JPG

Almost out of frame, the black/white dress and what looks like a solid veil seem to indicate our Sisters were still in Gettysburg.

This image is supposed to be of the procession to the National Cemetery, Nov. 19th, 1863. It was a huge day in Gettysburg, according to eye witnesses, a huge procession so this is only a small section. Despite haste, the cemetery was unfinished. Fallen men were still being disinterred from the battlefield , men whose last sight of the sun had been through battle's smoke a few months earlier lay under freshly mounded earth. The town had begun a long recovery; it would never return to anything anyone could call normal. This day marked more than a dedication. The last men from Letterman Hospital were transferred, the hospital closed and something new opened.

loc procession snip.JPG


This turn out of citizens was significant. We just do not see ' Gettysburg ' beyond the battlefield and they're here. Each citizen had their own story of unspeakable horror, most threw away household linen stained with the blood of wounded men they nursed, most came together to solemnize not only fallen men but the history changing What Happened here.

cemetery dedication buggy - Copy.JPG

Buggy has always been puzzling- part of the procession which pulled off, allowing others to pass? Fluttering flags, military escort by the looks of it, whose?

This procession was carefully planned. There's an order, President Lincoln and Seward in the ranks, bands, dignitaries, officers and civilians of note walked the blocks to the dedication. You can't tell me this is the only photo- photographers didn't arduously set up all that gear for one shot but it's all we have. So far.

cemetery dedication crop.JPG

I'd had an idea for years that these troops were alone. They're not, the procession trails out of sight.


At what and who are we looking? Article made me curious- which part are we seeing and who was in it? These troops are halted, why? What are onlookers looking at there at the corner? To what is the cluster of people paying so much attention. The carriage fluttering flags, held by an officer probably would not have held civilians, there's too much military around. Whose carriage?

dedication 1 - Copy.JPG


dedication 2.JPG


We're seeing one regiment, with more procession trailing off into time. After the military came Lincoln.

dedication 3.JPG

After men who fought, before the citizens they served, public servants. Like a President and his Secretary of State.

dedication 4.JPG


This procession is not in motion in this photo- head of the long stream, halted and waiting? Had some already passed from sight, around the corner and gone? Is President Lincoln somewhere in sight, an out of focus group somewhere far above where we see more procession on the way? It's all so unidentifiable, at least knowing the order, someone with a lot more information about troops could tell us who, exactly, these troops may be. And if Lincoln is a speck in the crowd, how cool would that be?

Please no one gets distracted thinking I'm asking the wrong question. Genuinely love to know what troops, what may be happening at this corner and why the procession has apparently halted. Asked a question not long ago about this photograph. It probably won't be the last- such an important moment in time, too important to miss anything.

cemetery dedication soldiers march.JPG
 

Northern Light

Lt. Colonel
Forum Host
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
Messages
10,735
The neatest thing about your fascination with photos, to me at any rate, is that you make us REALLY look at them as well. All the things you see, we see and then we look for more! Thanks, ...I think...:frantic::giggle:
Is this Baltimore Street, JPK? I was trying to recognize buildings.
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!
Joined
Feb 6, 2019
Messages
131
No problem. As a photo editor our brain is literally trained to look a photographs differently. I almost never see an entire photo. You just see elements that need edited, if that makes sense? I actually did a series of restorations on about 30 images from the 1890's.....and I don't think I remember any of the photos as a hole. I just remember certain sections that were brutally difficult to restore...
 
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
941
Here is the official program for the Procession to the National Cemetery. It seems that General Meade led the procession, then the military followed, then came Abraham Lincoln. Following Lincoln were Members of the U.S. Congress. After them were a plethora of dignitaries of all kinds (local, state, national, foreign). The regiment in the photo obviously is a infantry unit with bayonets fixed and gleaming.

http://hd.housedivided.dickinson.edu/node/41270
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!
Joined
Mar 3, 2017
Messages
9,818
Location
Chicagoland
Buggy has always been puzzling- part of the procession which pulled off, allowing others to pass? Fluttering flags, military escort by the looks of it, whose?
Where was Lincoln in the procession? Was that him in the buggy watching the parade? I know he rode a horse and there is a saddled horse being held by a soldier near the buggy. Did he lead the procession and then pull over to watch the soldiers march past?
 

Northern Light

Lt. Colonel
Forum Host
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
Messages
10,735
Can you find the civil war dog in the photo? I have the 6 vol. set "The Image of War: 1861-1865 books and I look at the pics with a magnifying glass to pick up the small details that I would have overlooked and find many interesting things.
Yes! The dog is in the forefront, in front of a hoop skirted woman in a plaid shawl centre right of the photo.
 

LoyaltyOfDogs

First Sergeant
Joined
Aug 8, 2011
Messages
1,415
Location
Gettysburg area
The neatest thing about your fascination with photos, to me at any rate, is that you make us REALLY look at them as well. All the things you see, we see and then we look for more! Thanks, ...I think...:frantic::giggle:
Is this Baltimore Street, JPK? I was trying to recognize buildings.
Yes, Baltimore Street, just before the right turn onto Emmitsburg Road (today's Steinwehr Avenue). Here are the full scene and the link to its high-resolution file in the Library of Congress. And further below is a scene from the same approximate location at last year's Remembrance Day parade.

Crowd watching Gettysburg dedication procession.jpg




Baltimore Street crowd 2018.jpg
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

treebie2000

Corporal
Joined
Jul 19, 2018
Messages
273
Location
Lima, OH
Here is the official program for the Procession to the National Cemetery. It seems that General Meade led the procession, then the military followed, then came Abraham Lincoln. Following Lincoln were Members of the U.S. Congress. After them were a plethora of dignitaries of all kinds (local, state, national, foreign). The regiment in the photo obviously is a infantry unit with bayonets fixed and gleaming.

http://hd.housedivided.dickinson.edu/node/41270
Actually the list of procession participants would indicate that these guys were probably artillerymen despite the long arms and gleaming bayonets... the crossed cannons (I think) on the headgear. Grunts would have had bugles.
Crowd_of_citizens,_soldiers,_and_etc__with_Lincoln_at_Gettysburg__-_NARA_-_529085_-crop (2).jpg

Wonder if some of our members can pull a Regimental number off of this? Some of them can do amazing things with these old photos.
 

treebie2000

Corporal
Joined
Jul 19, 2018
Messages
273
Location
Lima, OH
View attachment 294829
Gettysburg, November 19th 1863. The procession to the new Soldier's National Cemetery was captured by Brady, this is asnip from the famous ' troops marching into Gettysburg ' photo gives endless scope for examination. It's not troops marching in, it's part of the procession- but which part?

Disclaimer yes, this photograph has been examined to death and back here. Yes, with thousands of less famous photos, why re-hash just one? Because I still have questions, love to know a LOT more of Lincoln's stop in Gettysburg, November, 1863.

View attachment 294839
Almost out of frame, the black/white dress and what looks like a solid veil seem to indicate our Sisters were still in Gettysburg.

This image is supposed to be of the procession to the National Cemetery, Nov. 19th, 1863. It was a huge day in Gettysburg, according to eye witnesses, a huge procession so this is only a small section. Despite haste, the cemetery was unfinished. Fallen men were still being disinterred from the battlefield , men whose last sight of the sun had been through battle's smoke a few months earlier lay under freshly mounded earth. The town had begun a long recovery; it would never return to anything anyone could call normal. This day marked more than a dedication. The last men from Letterman Hospital were transferred, the hospital closed and something new opened.

View attachment 294843

This turn out of citizens was significant. We just do not see ' Gettysburg ' beyond the battlefield and they're here. Each citizen had their own story of unspeakable horror, most threw away household linen stained with the blood of wounded men they nursed, most came together to solemnize not only fallen men but the history changing What Happened here.

View attachment 294836
Buggy has always been puzzling- part of the procession which pulled off, allowing others to pass? Fluttering flags, military escort by the looks of it, whose?

This procession was carefully planned. There's an order, President Lincoln and Seward in the ranks, bands, dignitaries, officers and civilians of note walked the blocks to the dedication. You can't tell me this is the only photo- photographers didn't arduously set up all that gear for one shot but it's all we have. So far.

View attachment 294838
I'd had an idea for years that these troops were alone. They're not, the procession trails out of sight.


At what and who are we looking? Article made me curious- which part are we seeing and who was in it? These troops are halted, why? What are onlookers looking at there at the corner? To what is the cluster of people paying so much attention. The carriage fluttering flags, held by an officer probably would not have held civilians, there's too much military around. Whose carriage?

View attachment 294830

View attachment 294831

We're seeing one regiment, with more procession trailing off into time. After the military came Lincoln.

View attachment 294832
After men who fought, before the citizens they served, public servants. Like a President and his Secretary of State.

View attachment 294833

This procession is not in motion in this photo- head of the long stream, halted and waiting? Had some already passed from sight, around the corner and gone? Is President Lincoln somewhere in sight, an out of focus group somewhere far above where we see more procession on the way? It's all so unidentifiable, at least knowing the order, someone with a lot more information about troops could tell us who, exactly, these troops may be. And if Lincoln is a speck in the crowd, how cool would that be?

Please no one gets distracted thinking I'm asking the wrong question. Genuinely love to know what troops, what may be happening at this corner and why the procession has apparently halted. Asked a question not long ago about this photograph. It probably won't be the last- such an important moment in time, too important to miss anything.

View attachment 294840
Thanks a lot @JPK Huson 1863 ...I'm supposed to be prepping for my Fantasy Baseball Draft, and you've got me pouring over Gettysburg photos....again.
 

JPK Huson 1863

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Forum Host
Joined
Feb 14, 2012
Messages
18,974
Location
Central Pennsylvania
indicate that these guys were probably artillerymen

Ok, that might match the article? I only say ' might ' because every time I jump to a conclusion with one of these I'm horribly wrong. The 2nd US Artillery was right after the band ( although where's the band? May already have made the turn- some citizens seem to be looking to the left ). This place is great- where else can this stuff get identified?

@LoyaltyOfDogs , there was a dog there, too! Love it! BOY doesn't Gettysburg look different? You'd never guess this was at that turn- and makes sense the procession went that route. I'm putting it on my list of MUST sees, for your town's next re-processional. It's only an hour and a half away...... .


Where was Lincoln in the procession? Was that him in the buggy watching the parade? I know he rode a horse and there is a saddled horse being held by a soldier near the buggy. Did he lead the procession and then pull over to watch the soldiers march past?
Interesting- I was wondering whose buggy it was, too- Lincoln was apparently behind the band, the 2nd US Artillery, dignitaries like Couch, etc., another band and artillery unit. Someone who knows this stuff could guesstimate where was Lincoln and is his spot in sight in this photo? Drat you Brady- he could have left us a hint. The thing is yes, whose buggy with a military escort? There are quite a few people paying attention to a group who is either sitting on a fence or standing elevated, on the other side of the road and the procession is halted. OK, this will make me a little batty. Somewhere is an account by a civilian or member of the military who was there.
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

JPK Huson 1863

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Forum Host
Joined
Feb 14, 2012
Messages
18,974
Location
Central Pennsylvania
Thanks a lot @JPK Huson 1863 ...I'm supposed to be prepping for my Fantasy Baseball Draft, and you've got me pouring over Gettysburg photos....again.

Isn't it dreadful getting sucked into these? Hours I'll never get back although can't regret it- too fascinating! Hey, there's always next year's Fantasy draft, right? :angel:
 
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
941
The OP photo and the two below were long thought to have been taken by Brady, but historians now credit the photos to the Tyson Brothers. Isaac and Charles Tyson established a portrait gallery in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, in 1859 and were the only local photographers in residence at the time of the battle. The Tyson Brothers took three photos of the procession that November day, (the OP photo and the two below). Notice that the buggy to the right is in all three images. Also, the photo immediately below was obviously taken just prior to or closely after the procession had passed down Baltimore Street. Citizens are seen on the sidewalks on both sides of street while others appear walking and crossing the street itself.


1551965502010.png




1551966214108.png
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

LoyaltyOfDogs

First Sergeant
Joined
Aug 8, 2011
Messages
1,415
Location
Gettysburg area
@LoyaltyOfDogs , there was a dog there, too! Love it! BOY doesn't Gettysburg look different? You'd never guess this was at that turn- and makes sense the procession went that route. I'm putting it on my list of MUST sees, for your town's next re-processional. It's only an hour and a half away...... .
Yes, @JPK Huson 1863, I smiled to arrive and find a dog standing there as if he was reenacting the scene. Have no idea who he and his companion were, but he seemed to be wearing a service vest of some kind. He may have been a service dog or a service-dog-in-training out for some practice at attending a busy public event. He did a great job of recreating the scene: stand behind woman, heading southwest, look over left shoulder toward photographer...
 

JPK Huson 1863

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Forum Host
Joined
Feb 14, 2012
Messages
18,974
Location
Central Pennsylvania
Im thinking spectator

Have a feeling you're right, the soldiers on horseback incidental. Could have been anyone, like an elderly person not up to fighting the crowds.

@connecticut yankee , makes sense thank you! Tysons left town like a lot of citizens ( and hysterically, were barbers too- found their ads in the Gettysburg Compiler ), but later took quite a few shots of their town. I know we owe those awesome shots of Letterman to them. It's very odd- I think there was yet another photographer in town too but you see ' Brady ' attached to more shots than either local firm. Heck, and didn't Gardner get there well before Brady?

What I'm waiting for is the cache of photos out there no one's discovered yet. Two or more local firms, Gardner and Brady showed up and you just know photographers from say, Harrisburg and surrounding areas headed to Gettysburg. With tourists arriving July 4th you just know so did photographers. MUST be photographs we haven't seen- yet.
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!
Top