Restricted Debate Notes on Northern Slavery


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CSA Today

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Meaning that the New England trade had ditched chattel slavery decades before the slave South went to war to protect it. Is there something that we're missing here?
Yeah, after an existence of nearly 200 years including decades after all the rhetoric of 1776. The Confederate States went to war to protect its independence, slavery wasn't threatened either by Lincoln or by the Confederate government.

Recommended reading: Anne Farrow, Joel Lang, and Jenifer, Frank, Complicity: How the North Promoted, Prolonged and Profited from Slavery. Hugh Thomas, The Slave Trade, The Story of the Atlantic Slave Trade: 1440-1870. Daniel P. Mannix and Malcolm Cowley, Black Cargoes, A History of the Atlantic Slave Trade.
 

archieclement

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When Slavery was ended up North did the Northern Slave Holders just turn the slaves loose as in "Poof, you're free". Or try and sell them?
IIRC some northern states then blurred the lines between slavery and indentured servitude, allowing a transition period where one might remain a slave a set number of years before going free, or until a certain age.
 

archieclement

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IIRC some northern states then blurred the lines between slavery and indentured servitude, allowing a transition period where one might remain a slave a set number of years before going free, or until a certain age.
heres an example

In 1804 the New Jersey Legislature passed "An Act for the Gradual Abolition of Slavery." It provided that females born of slave parents after July 4, 1804, would be free upon reaching 21 years of age, and males upon reaching 25. Like New York's, this law held a hidden subsidy for slaveowners. A provision allowed them to free their slave children, who would then be turned over to the care of the local overseers of the poor (the state's social welfare agency in those days). The bill provided $3 a month for the support of such children. A slaveowner could then agree to have the children "placed" in his household and collect the $3 monthly subsidy on them. The evidence suggests this practice was widespread, and the line item for "abandoned blacks" rose to be 40 percent of the New Jersey budget by 1809. It was a tax on the entire state paid into the pockets of a few to maintain what were still, essentially, slaves.
 

byron ed

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...slavery wasn't threatened either by Lincoln or by the Confederate government...Recommended reading...[etc. etc.]
Everybody knows that the Confederacy felt Lincoln was a threat to slavery, each of your listed authors included, so what are you doing? (You realize those books are easily available, right? ...even for free through inter-library loan).
 
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Illinois had slavery up to 1863.
I'd like to see proof of that. The 1848 Illinois Constitution banned slavery in Article XIII, section 16:
"There shall be neither slavery nor involuntary servitude in this state, except as a punishment for crime, whereof the party shall have been duly convicted."
 

Rebforever

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I'd like to see proof of that. The 1848 Illinois Constitution banned slavery in Article XIII, section 16:
"There shall be neither slavery nor involuntary servitude in this state, except as a punishment for crime, whereof the party shall have been duly convicted."
I wondered who the first one would be to hop on my statement.

But it clearly shows some do not read what others have posted. I made a study concerning Illinois Slavery and can easily be found with the proper reading furnished. I am not going to dig it out for either of you. It is still in the archives readily available.
 

archieclement

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I'd like to see proof of that. The 1848 Illinois Constitution banned slavery in Article XIII, section 16:
"There shall be neither slavery nor involuntary servitude in this state, except as a punishment for crime, whereof the party shall have been duly convicted."
Its an interesting situation, I would think slavery was technically illegal before 1863......yet they still recorded emancipation's of slaves

"Although Illinois’ new Constitution of 1848 outlawed “slavery and involuntary servitude,” slavery continued, but probably on a very limited basis. Records from the State Archives show the last recorded emancipation of an Illinois slave was in 1863, in the middle of the Civil War."

from https://www.nprillinois.org/post/illinois-issues-slave-state#stream/0

I haven't ever heard it explained to me satisfactorily how a state could still record legal proceedings that were illegal.......but apparently it did occur, and emancipation's continued even though slavery supposedly didn't exist........
 
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CSA Today

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Everybody knows that the Confederacy felt Lincoln was a threat to slavery, each of your listed authors included, so what are you doing? (You realize those books are easily available, right? ...even for free through inter-library loan).
The causes of secession were different from the cause of the war. Whether the Confederate States would be allowed to remain an independent country was the cause of the war. Neither the CS or the US went to war over slavery in April 1861.

I agree inter-library loan is a great turn to service when one wants to read a book but not buy it. If you choose to get Thomas' The Slave Trade, The Story of the Atlantic Slave Trade: 1440-1870 it is 908 pages long including appendixes, endnotes, sources, and index.
 
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Its an interesting situation, I would think slavery was technically illegal before 1863......yet they still recorded emancipation's of slaves

"Although Illinois’ new Constitution of 1848 outlawed “slavery and involuntary servitude,” slavery continued, but probably on a very limited basis. Records from the State Archives show the last recorded emancipation of an Illinois slave was in 1863, in the middle of the Civil War."

from https://www.nprillinois.org/post/illinois-issues-slave-state#stream/0

I haven't ever heard it explained to me satisfactorily how a state could still record legal proceedings that were illegal.......but apparently it did occur, and emancipation's continued even though slavery supposedly didn't exist........
That's a new one on me. Thank you for the link.
 
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I wondered who the first one would be to hop on my statement.

But it clearly shows some do not read what others have posted. I made a study concerning Illinois Slavery and can easily be found with the proper reading furnished. I am not going to dig it out for either of you. It is still in the archives readily available.
Sorry that sometimes I have a life and other commitments and can't read many prior posts. archieclement was kind enough to provide me with an explanation and link to back up his comment.
 
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I wondered who the first one would be to hop on my statement.

But it clearly shows some do not read what others have posted. I made a study concerning Illinois Slavery and can easily be found with the proper reading furnished. I am not going to dig it out for either of you. It is still in the archives readily available.
I suppose some of us should bear this in mind when you respond to posts asking for a source.
 
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Eric Calistri

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Its an interesting situation, I would think slavery was technically illegal before 1863......yet they still recorded emancipation's of slaves

"Although Illinois’ new Constitution of 1848 outlawed “slavery and involuntary servitude,” slavery continued, but probably on a very limited basis. Records from the State Archives show the last recorded emancipation of an Illinois slave was in 1863, in the middle of the Civil War."

from https://www.nprillinois.org/post/illinois-issues-slave-state#stream/0

I haven't ever heard it explained to me satisfactorily how a state could still record legal proceedings that were illegal.......but apparently it did occur, and emancipation's continued even though slavery supposedly didn't exist........

One data source on this is from Shawneetown Illinois. About half the slaves in the registrations at Gallatin County had not been residents of Illinois, but rather brought to Illinois from a slave state to be freed. Slave states had restrictions on freeing blacks, in some cases requiring them to leave the state. Many of the other cases listed from Gallatin County here seem to be certifications of persons freed years earlier. I would guess a freed black who lost his emancipation papers, or never had them in the first place, would be fairly certain to try and obtain this important documentation.
 

unionblue

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The causes of secession were different from the cause of the war. Whether the Confederate States would be allowed to remain an independent country was the cause of the war. Neither the CS or the US went to war over slavery in April 1861.

"...On the occasion corresponding to this four years ago, all thoughts were anxiously directed to an impending civil war. All dreaded it--all sought to avert it. While the inaugural address was being delivered from this place, devoted altogether to saving the Union without war, insurgent agents were in the city seeking to destroy it without war--seeking to dissolve the Union, and divide effects, by negotiation. Both parties deprecated war; but one of them would make war rather than let the nation survive; and the other would accept war rather than let it perish. And the war came.

One eighth of the whole population were colored slaves, not distributed generally over the Union, but localized in the southern part of it. These slaves constituted a peculiar and powerful interest. All knew that this interest was, somehow, the cause of the war. To strengthen, perpetuate, and extend this interest was the object for which the insurgents would rend the Union, even by war; while the government claimed no right to do more than to restrict the territorial enlargement of it...."


I agree inter-library loan is a great turn to service when one wants to read a book but not buy it. If you choose to get Thomas' The Slave Trade, The Story of the Atlantic Slave Trade: 1440-1870 it is 908 pages long including appendixes, endnotes, sources, and index.
You also might want to pick out the book, Lincoln & the Politics of Slavery, by Daniel W. Crofts, recommended by @uaskme , an excellent source on how the North was not going to interfere with slavery where it was, but how the slaveholding South kept the issue of slavery before the nation in spite of this stated noninterference with the institution.

The South made the issue of slavery front and center cause of the war, not Lincoln and the Republican Party.

Unionblue
 

archieclement

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One data source on this is from Shawneetown Illinois. About half the slaves in the registrations at Gallatin County had not been residents of Illinois, but rather brought to Illinois from a slave state to be freed. Slave states had restrictions on freeing blacks, in some cases requiring them to leave the state. Many of the other cases listed from Gallatin County here seem to be certifications of persons freed years earlier. I would guess a freed black who lost his emancipation papers, or never had them in the first place, would be fairly certain to try and obtain this important documentation.
It seems all those were before 1848 when slavery was abolished.

The NPR piece suggests slavery continued past 1848, there wouldn't be much need to emancipate someone who was already free
 

Eric Calistri

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It seems all those were before 1848 when slavery was abolished.

The NPR piece suggests slavery continued past 1848, there wouldn't be much need to emancipate someone who was already free

I see no reason to assume these types of entrees would not have continued to occur:


"p. 203. I, Creasey DOWNING, set free my daughter, Emily Mandiville HANSHAW, aged about 19 years, having purchased her by bill of sale from John BLUE of Union Co., KY on Aug. 17, 1837. Witnesses: W. A. G. POSEY and John MARSHALL. Certified statement made before Thos. F. VAUGHT, JP, on August 21, 1837. Recorded September 1, 1837. "


"pp. 206-8. Marshall Co., Tennessee. Court held at house of Abner HOUSTON on Nov. 6, 1837. (transcript of proceedings) Those present: William McCLURE, chairman, Ephraim HUNTER, James L. ERVING, Joseph CLECK, Thomas ROSS, John HATCHELL, James REED, James ADAMS, Thomas CUMMINS (?), David YANCY, Asa HOLLAND, Rob't JOHNSON, Peter WILLIAMS, Thomas WILSON, John FIELD, Thomas HARDISON, and James PATTERSON. Gentlemen Justices of the Peace.

Allen LEEPER of this county is desirous of emancipating his Negro man, named HARRY, aged between 30 and 40 years for various reasons not the least of which his his conscientious scruples on the subject of holing slaves. LEEPER is willing to enter into bond and security conditions that said slave shall forthwith move from the state according to law. The decree handed down was the HARRY would be set free providing he left the state when he became free. Certified by Marshall County Court Nov. 8, 1837. Signed by Martin W. OAKLEY, Clerk of said County Court. Recorded in Gallatin County, Illinois on December 30, 1837."
 


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