New / Used Armi Sport 1861

Joined
Feb 11, 2021
So I just got my new to me rifled musket today. I miked the barrel at .588 average of 3 measurements. What size minie ball should I shoot? I know standard is .575 with 60 grains 2fg. I will be running 2fg at 60 grains. Didn’t know if I should use a .577 or .580. What are the thoughts. I just don’t want the minie ball to slide down the barrel while hunting or shooting if the muzzle gets tilted down. Don’t want a $900 pipe bomb
 

ucvrelics

Lt. Colonel
Forum Host
Regtl. Quartermaster Shiloh 2020
Joined
May 7, 2016
Location
Alabama
So I just got my new to me rifled musket today. I miked the barrel at .588 average of 3 measurements. What size minie ball should I shoot? I know standard is .575 with 60 grains 2fg. I will be running 2fg at 60 grains. Didn’t know if I should use a .577 or .580. What are the thoughts. I just don’t want the minie ball to slide down the barrel while hunting or shooting if the muzzle gets tilted down. Don’t want a $900 pipe bomb
Good call. Lets see if we can get you an answer as I collect original and don't shoot them. paging @johan_steele
 

Ranchero50

Private
Joined
Feb 2, 2021
Location
Hagerstown MD
How far down were you measuring? Mine was a defarbed Eurosport Enfield that I brought back to life. It likes .575" and will shoot about 8-10 before fouling. Only real gripe is the nipple was drilled out for reenactments and I need to make another taller version that the hammer fits better on. I'd grab a hand full of different sizes and see what the barrel likes.
 

toot

Private
Joined
Jan 21, 2021
So I just got my new to me rifled musket today. I miked the barrel at .588 average of 3 measurements. What size minie ball should I shoot? I know standard is .575 with 60 grains 2fg. I will be running 2fg at 60 grains. Didn’t know if I should use a .577 or .580. What are the thoughts. I just don’t want the minie ball to slide down the barrel while hunting or shooting if the muzzle gets tilted down. Don’t want a $900 pipe bomb
put a wad on top. or a piece of brown STORE KRAFT paper bag. jmho.
 

johan_steele

Regimental Armorer
Retired Moderator
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Location
South of the North 40
So I just got my new to me rifled musket today. I miked the barrel at .588 average of 3 measurements. What size minie ball should I shoot? I know standard is .575 with 60 grains 2fg. I will be running 2fg at 60 grains. Didn’t know if I should use a .577 or .580. What are the thoughts. I just don’t want the minie ball to slide down the barrel while hunting or shooting if the muzzle gets tilted down. Don’t want a $900 pipe bomb
You’re going to need to slug the barrel. You can guess but... for the best accuracy.

my competition rifles were .578 & .579. I had good results with .5745 with 55 grains of 2fg. Make certain to shoot heavier bullets; mine are 540 grain and I’m content with the results. A note on lube... don’t skimp. I use white lithium grease or bore butter in the bullet grooves. You don’t need to fill the cup of the bullet with lube... I do. I fill the cup with white lithium grease. It helps keep fouling soft and buildup is minimal. I regularly shoot 40-50 rounds before I need to seriously clean her. Between flights I do no more than give a few squirts of alcohol down the barrel with a couple passes of a patch and range rod.

cleaning... ignore the expensive gimmicks. Invest in a good range rod with a bore scraper as well as jag. Hot water, Hoppes 9 and a little rem oil is all you really need.
 
Joined
Feb 11, 2021
You’re going to need to slug the barrel. You can guess but... for the best accuracy.

my competition rifles were .578 & .579. I had good results with .5745 with 55 grains of 2fg. Make certain to shoot heavier bullets; mine are 540 grain and I’m content with the results. A note on lube... don’t skimp. I use white lithium grease or bore butter in the bullet grooves. You don’t need to fill the cup of the bullet with lube... I do. I fill the cup with white lithium grease. It helps keep fouling soft and buildup is minimal. I regularly shoot 40-50 rounds before I need to seriously clean her. Between flights I do no more than give a few squirts of alcohol down the barrel with a couple passes of a patch and range rod.

cleaning... ignore the expensive gimmicks. Invest in a good range rod with a bore scraper as well as jag. Hot water, Hoppes 9 and a little rem oil is all you really need.
I have never slugged a barrel before but i did get some bore calipers that will be here tomorrow. Cleaning i use ballistol and a ballistol with water mix at 90:10. Along with that i use hot soapy water and let it soak in the barrel usually i will put my nipple that is plugged in and pour it down the barrel. As far as lube i have been using the spg from track of the wolf and beeswax with tallow in my hawkins
 
Joined
Feb 11, 2021
I have never slugged a barrel before but i did get some bore calipers that will be here tomorrow. Cleaning i use ballistol and a ballistol with water mix at 90:10. Along with that i use hot soapy water and let it soak in the barrel usually i will put my nipple that is plugged in and pour it down the barrel. As far as lube i have been using the spg from track of the wolf and beeswax with tallow in my hawkins
I did measure the lands and grooves and came out with a .009 reading for depth of the rifling
 

FedericoFCavada

Sergeant
Joined
Jan 27, 2015
Location
San Antonio, Texas
You could contact Mr. Pat Kaboskey via Lodgewood manufacturing up in Wisconsin. He can sell you a sample of sized Minies. You want to find a close-fit, like within a couple of thousandths or less to your true bore size. Once you figure that out, you can then start looking for moulds, lead, a furnace for smelting, and other odds and ends, or buy some bullets sized to that size.

I'm not a super-skirmisher marksman by any stretch. I make my own lube out of mutton tallow and bees wax. These days, I'm usually using a 1 to 1 ratio, with a little olive oil to keep it smooth. I put this concoction in a double boiler and dip the bullet skirt stuck into the mouth of my cartridge tubes one at a time, but I've also "pan lubed" them by putting them all on a plate and pouring the molten lubricant on them until it dries.

I've finally decided on a model for the smooth-bore .69 caliber North Carolina so-called "Nessler" bullet cartridges after failing to find how the actual cartridges were made. But that is experimental archaeology and not target shooting or skirmishing. I'll be using a 1 part wax to three part tallow mix for those.
 

FedericoFCavada

Sergeant
Joined
Jan 27, 2015
Location
San Antonio, Texas
On my Pedersippi/ Mississoli rifle in .58, I'm using .575 balls and like 45-grains of 3-f. For my original M1842 rifled and sighted with a Hoyt relining, the barrel is about .687 and I'm using unsized, as-cast .685s in it with reasonably good results. About 50 to 55 grains of 3-f/ FFFg Goex. For Minies, I like 3f, but for smoothbores, I try to use 2f. RWS German-mfr. musket caps for the most part--if available.
 

koabd1978

Private
Joined
Jan 21, 2020
Location
West Michigan
between flights I do no more than give a few squirts of alcohol down the barrel with a couple passes of a patch and range rod.

cleaning... ignore the expensive gimmicks. Invest in a good range rod with a bore scraper as well as jag. Hot water, Hoppes 9 and a little rem oil is all you really need.

so what type of alcohol? a smooth sippin' whisky or something a little harsher like 'shine or everclear? also is that to soften fouling or because it hates airplanes and needs to be buzzed to fly?


but seriously ,I've heard the term slug a barrel but what does that entail? can I do at home myself or does a gunsmith do it?
 

FedericoFCavada

Sergeant
Joined
Jan 27, 2015
Location
San Antonio, Texas
so what type of alcohol? a smooth sippin' whisky or something a little harsher like 'shine or everclear? also is that to soften fouling or because it hates airplanes and needs to be buzzed to fly?


but seriously ,I've heard the term slug a barrel but what does that entail? can I do at home myself or does a gunsmith do it?
"slugging the barrel" involves taking lube/grease and a malleable "slug" and making a precise measurement of the barrel. Best to have help if you've not done it before, and a smith who works on muzzle-stuffers would be a recommendation as well. Measuring the true bore diameter can be a challenge with many Minie-ball muzzle-loading rifles because these have three rifling grooves which are typically shallow and wide.

In my case, I knew the modern-day manufacturers had a closer tolerance than historic barrels did, and that I had made some caliper measurements. After that, I contacted Mr. Kaboskey and described my dilemma: that I couldn't very well get a mould and a sizer unless I knew what exact size of minie ball to use. He sent me several samples, and I basically just used those to get it down to the most precise fit for the bore diameter I had. With the Robert Hoyt relining, he graciously sent me the precise dimensions of his relining job along with the completed barrel, and such it appears to be.

Good luck and good shooting to you! If there are skirmishers/ N-SSA folks near where you are, these may be an invaluable resource in getting started out with your rifle and gear. I've found Texas skirmishers to be very informative and helpful and willing to share their experience and insights.
 

johan_steele

Regimental Armorer
Retired Moderator
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Location
South of the North 40
I have never slugged a barrel before but i did get some bore calipers that will be here tomorrow. Cleaning i use ballistol and a ballistol with water mix at 90:10. Along with that i use hot soapy water and let it soak in the barrel usually i will put my nipple that is plugged in and pour it down the barrel. As far as lube i have been using the spg from track of the wolf and beeswax with tallow in my hawkins
The bore calipers will work. I'm a cheap SoB. The SPG will work well. I had a source for inexpensive white lithium grease and bore butter years ago and am still working my way through it. The SPG & beeswax combo is less messy for certain.
 

johan_steele

Regimental Armorer
Retired Moderator
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Location
South of the North 40
so what type of alcohol? a smooth sippin' whisky or something a little harsher like 'shine or everclear? also is that to soften fouling or because it hates airplanes and needs to be buzzed to fly?


but seriously ,I've heard the term slug a barrel but what does that entail? can I do at home myself or does a gunsmith do it?
Everclear is for college student alcoholic wannabees. I'm a cheap SoB so high alcohol content rubbing alcohol works just fine.
 
Joined
Feb 11, 2021
What product is SPG? A lube? I have a Track of the Wolf Catalog here, somewhere.
You are referring to a Hawkins so are you describing shooting Minie or Maxi balls or patched ball?
The thread is for my 1861 Springfield.58. I have two hawkins that i shoot as well .490 round ball with ox-yoke lubed .015 patches over 60 grains 2fg. Spg is a lube yes
 

DixieRifles

Captain
Member of the Year
Regtl. Staff Shiloh 2020
Joined
Mar 22, 2009
Location
Collierville, TN
I have two hawkins that i shoot as well .490 round ball with ox-yoke lubed .015 patches over 60 grains 2fg. Spg is a lube yes
Oh. Maybe I will recognize the name if I saw the logo. I will look in my T-o-t-W catalog.

I've been using two different thicknesses of patches called "Pushin Daisey".

I have three .50 caliber guns with barrels lengths of: 28in, 41in and 10in. I'm glad they share common ammo. I have gone to the range with the wrong ammo.
 
Joined
Feb 11, 2021
Oh. Maybe I will recognize the name if I saw the logo. I will look in my T-o-t-W catalog.

I've been using two different thicknesses of patches called "Pushin Daisey".

I have three .50 caliber guns with barrels lengths of: 28in, 41in and 10in. I'm glad they share common ammo. I have gone to the range with the wrong ammo.
I also shoot minie balls out of my one hawkins as the other has a 1:66 patch ball barrel and will shoot a clover leaf at 100 yards
 

poorjack

Corporal
Joined
Jul 17, 2015
Location
NC
So I just got my new to me rifled musket today. I miked the barrel at .588 average of 3 measurements. What size minie ball should I shoot? I know standard is .575 with 60 grains 2fg. I will be running 2fg at 60 grains. Didn’t know if I should use a .577 or .580. What are the thoughts. I just don’t want the minie ball to slide down the barrel while hunting or shooting if the muzzle gets tilted down. Don’t want a $900 pipe bomb
To measure your barrel, use ping gauges. They're like $5ea and you need only a few of them to accurately measure the bore. Slugging will entail unbreeching the gun and is not advised. Your measurement of .588 seems to be to the bottom of the grooves.

In N-SSA competition, we size minies to .001 under bore size for best accuracy. Don't be hung up on 60g of 2f. You might find that 50ish of 3f will give better accuracy. Lube is extremely important. Filling the base is detrimental to accuracy. I've found a number of minies with lube still in the base. If the lube and powder charge are in balance, lube in the base is not necessary. I've gone to nearly 60 shots straight without wiping nor fouling out and accuracy was maintained. As for accuracy, they are quite capable of excellent accuracy. Both my Parker Hales are 2moa guns, meaning they can shoot 2in groups at 100yds with minies.
 
Joined
Feb 11, 2021
To measure your barrel, use ping gauges. They're like $5ea and you need only a few of them to accurately measure the bore. Slugging will entail unbreeching the gun and is not advised. Your measurement of .588 seems to be to the bottom of the grooves.

In N-SSA competition, we size minies to .001 under bore size for best accuracy. Don't be hung up on 60g of 2f. You might find that 50ish of 3f will give better accuracy. Lube is extremely important. Filling the base is detrimental to accuracy. I've found a number of minies with lube still in the base. If the lube and powder charge are in balance, lube in the base is not necessary. I've gone to nearly 60 shots straight without wiping nor fouling out and accuracy was maintained. As for accuracy, they are quite capable of excellent accuracy. Both my Parker Hales are 2moa guns, meaning they can shoot 2in groups at 100yds with minies.
After i dip the mines do i just flip them upside down and fill in the cavity and level it off? I found that my patch ball barrel like 55 to 70 grains and stays pretty consistent in that range. I would love to shoot NSSA matches but cant find any in Wisconsin. Im actually taking the 61 to lodgewood today so he can look at it and do some defarb work as well
 
Top