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New Orleans Is Wrong To Remove Its Confederate Monuments

Discussion in 'Campfire Chat - General Discussions' started by CMWinkler, Apr 26, 2017.

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  1. CMWinkler

    CMWinkler Colonel Forum Host Retired Moderator

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    New Orleans Is Wrong To Remove Its Confederate Monuments
    The progressive impulse to purge public spaces of Confederate monuments isn’t about inclusion and tolerance, it’s about politics and power.
    FullSizeRender-1024x1012.jpg
    By John Daniel Davidson
    April 25, 2017

    In the early morning hours of Monday, masked men in black bulletproof vests gathered at the Battle of Liberty Place in downtown New Orleans. They arrived in flatbed trucks, the name of the company on the trucks’ sides concealed by tape and cardboard. Snipers took up positions on nearby rooftops.

    This wasn’t the scene of a bank heist or a mob hit. The snipers were New Orleans police, and the workers were under contract with the city. They were there to tear down a 126-year-old monument linked to the Confederacy. New Orleans is the latest city to embark on the removal of its Confederate monuments, a rising trend among progressive municipal leaders and activists who claim to be acting in the name of tolerance but whose true purpose is political.

    More: http://thefederalist.com/2017/04/25/new-orleans-wrong-remove-confederate-monuments/
     

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  3. CMWinkler

    CMWinkler Colonel Forum Host Retired Moderator

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    Roy Exum: New Orleans Slaps History
    Tuesday, April 25, 2017 - by Roy Exum
    article.346771.jpg
    Roy Exum

    It was balmy and relatively quiet on Sunday afternoon in New Orleans. The flowers of spring were in full flush on Canal Street and, as darkness began to cloak the city, no one was aware that a cadre of police snipers was quietly setting up in a hotel parking garage across from the Liberty Place monument. Shortly after 1 a.m. yesterday morning, a number of large trucks rumbled past the police barricades on Canal and it was an odd sight indeed, even in the land of legendary Vieux Carré (The French Quarter.)

    The men in the trucks wore military helmets, flak jackets, and had their faces swathed as though they were some enemy terrorists.

    More: http://www.chattanoogan.com/2017/4/25/346771/Roy-Exum-New-Orleans-Slaps-History.aspx
     
  4. skb8721

    skb8721 Corporal

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    At heart I don't think it's a "progressive" issue, because "traditionalists" (or "conservatives," if you wish) have also been known to try to remove things they don't like from public view (like certain books from public school shelves).

    In other words, the urge to remove something perceived as "offensive" goes beyond politics.

    I have no doubt that those who want to remove the statues in question really do find them offensive and think that removing them will further inclusion and tolerance.

    I merely disagree with the removal because, as I pointed out in another thread, history is not pretty; and by removing the statues in question we are all squandering an opportunity to use the statues (something offensive to some) to teach history (something positive to all).

    I would be less annoyed with the removal of the statues in New Orleans, however, if the city government had told everyone in advance where and when the statues would be relocated. But to take them down and put them in storage for an unknown duration suggests to me the possibility that the statues will never end up in another location, such as the Civil War Museum of Louisiana in New Orleans (across from the National WWII Museum) -- which seems the natural place to put them, space permitting.
     
  5. unionblue

    unionblue Brev. Brig. Gen'l Member of the Year

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    People removing the statues would not have to do such in the middle of the night, wearing flak vests and masks if there were no idiots who kept giving out death threats for doing so.

    Like it or not, the people elected the folks who have determined to remove these monuments.

    It's their call until they decide that want new representatives to represent them.

    Sorta like that "states rights" thing some folks find important.
     
  6. 19thGeorgia

    19thGeorgia Sergeant

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    ...except they didn't run on the monuments issue when elected.
     
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  7. unionblue

    unionblue Brev. Brig. Gen'l Member of the Year

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    Are they being recalled?

    Anyone gaining enough votes to impeach anyone?

    Lawsuits being file?

    Are they being sued?

    Anyone listening to any opposing viewpoints that would convince those elected officials to reconsider their plans?

    It's a democracy for a reason and why the majority trumps a minority.
     
  8. StephenColbert27

    StephenColbert27 First Sergeant

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    If the people don't want it than there are pathways for them to deal with it. UB just mentioned them. If the people there are really against it, the people who voted for it will be gone. If they are still there after the next election, then it turns out that the local people there aren't against it.
    I would also hesitate to use anything from The Federalist website as a source. It is highly political itself.
     
  9. KansasFreestater

    KansasFreestater 1st Lieutenant

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    Please, please tell me they're not removing the statue of Thomas Jackson whose installation was the occasion of one of my favorite CW-related stories of all time.
    https://civilwartalk.com/threads/jacksons-council-of-war-with-god.118581/#post-1216158
    Such a powerful testimony of faithfulness and "fate" -- or what Lincoln and so many others saw as the mysterious workings of divine Providence....
    Maybe a plaque telling about Fr. Hubert's prayer during the statue's installation could be placed next to or in front of the statue.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2017
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  10. KansasFreestater

    KansasFreestater 1st Lieutenant

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    Re: Battle of Liberty Place monument:
    Mixed feelings. I'm appalled that there was ever a monument erected to honor white supremacists who sought to terrorize and kill black Americans. On the other hand, the battle itself contains an inspiring story of personal redemption that I would love to see honored in some way.

    James Longstreet, who had been Robert Lee's right-hand-man during the Civil War, after the war became a Republican and a stout defender of African-American rights. For his troubles, he was nearly killed in the Battle of Liberty Place.

    The catalyst for the Battle of September 14th, also known as the Battle for New Orleans Freedom or the Battle of Liberty Place, was a shipment of arms abroad the steamship Mississippi. The White Leaguers had arranged for a weapons shipment to augment their growing supplies and Longstreet, who was aware of their growing strength, wanted to move to intercept it. The General set his force, consisting of 600 police officers and 3,000 militiamen [including African-American militiamen], in a defensive formation along a line from Jackson Square to Canal Street. Also, to further block access to the shipment, he had forces set up between the Custom House and the river. The 8,000 armed White Leaguers, who had organized into a military chain-of-command under general Fred N. Ogden, marched to engage Longstreet that afternoon.26 The anger, resentment, and sheer tenacity of the White Leaguers carried the day as they rushed Longstreet’s troops. Battle cries and gunshots rang out across the Vieux Carré as Longstreet’s militiamen broke and ran in all directions and even jumped into the river to escape the onslaught. The New Orleans Times reported, “They (White Leaguers) received the fire of the Metropolitans without flinching and kept straight on in their charge. Seeing this, the Metropolitans wavered, scattered, an rushed off toward the Custom House.” The police and militia were taking fire from an organized army of twice their number and from snipers set up in various buildings. Longstreet’s force was pushed back to Jackson Square where he made a final effort to disperse the rebels.27

    The Battle of Liberty Place went poorly for Longstreet and he was extremely lucky to have escaped alive. Officers had to work to keep their men from firing at Longstreet, a man many perceived as vile scalawag and traitor, who was riding upon a horse trying to marshal his troops. As his troops broke and ran, General Longstreet made a last effort to order the mob to disperse, but he was dragged down from his horse and wounded by a spent bullet. With his capture the battle was essentially over. Although it had not lasted long, it was intense and resulted in over a hundred casualties.28 As the wounded Longstreet was being led into the Customs House where the White League was holding its prisoners the victors were shouting out the “rebel yell” in triumph. The General stopped before the door of his prison, took a moment to survey the crowd, and remarked, “I have heard the yell before.”29

    [snip]

    Longstreet was no longer merely an archetypal scalawag, he had led the defense against a force of ex-Confederates who had immediately become heroes of the New Orleans resistance to Reconstruction. As a result of his role in the Battle of Liberty Place, Longstreet’s vilification in the eyes of white Southerners was unique in its depth.
    Longstreet’s service to New Orleans on September 14th deserves more credit than it has received. He was a soldier performing his duty once more with absolutely no regard for his own personal safety in the face of daunting odds. In the aftermath, Longstreet was demonized by the Democrats. For the former second-in-command of the Confederate army to literally turn troops against former comrades was insufferable, and New Orleans became a dangerous place for Longstreet to walk the streets. The General, nevertheless, remained in the Crescent City and continued to work at making a life for himself.​
     
  11. dibbern

    dibbern Private

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    I am disgusted with inclusion of content from The Federalist being used in this website, which is a sanctuary from all the political hacking elsewhere and everywhere on the 'net. What next, Breitbart?
     
  12. StephenColbert27

    StephenColbert27 First Sergeant

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    Agreed. I have choice words of my own for so-called The Federalist website. I will only say that its very name is sacrilegious.
     
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  13. NedBaldwin

    NedBaldwin Captain

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    A monument is meant to honor someone and generally is designed as a positive representation.
    It exists as a regular reminder to the public that this person is whom society holds up as an icon.
    So I dont see how such a monument like that can be kept in place and achieve the purpose you suggest.
     
  14. KansasFreestater

    KansasFreestater 1st Lieutenant

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    Hey, things from the other side of the political spectrum get linked here, too. All the time. You don't have to read anything you don't want to. There is a No Modern Politics Allowed rule for actual posts by members -- but you can link anything you want, so long as it's Civil War-related in some way.
     
  15. Eleanor Rose

    Eleanor Rose Sergeant Major

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    I have never understood why General Longstreet didn't receive more respect for taking this stand. It seems to me like everyone should be able to agree that he deserves some recognition for this. Sadly it seems New Orleans chose to ignore what he did. I have never seen any mention of him there.
     
  16. StephenColbert27

    StephenColbert27 First Sergeant

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    In Seattle there is a statue of Vladimir Lenin. His hands are painted in such a manner as to suggest not so subtly that he has blood on his hands. Such a thing wouldn't be out of place here, I think.
     
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  17. CMWinkler

    CMWinkler Colonel Forum Host Retired Moderator

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    With all due respect to those who decry the use of an article from the federalist.com, I will say that I post articles relevant to this site regardless of the source. Were an article relevant in The Daily Worker or Breitbart or almost any source I will post it. As has been pointed out, if that offends your sensibilities, please, by all means, ignore it.
     
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  18. KansasFreestater

    KansasFreestater 1st Lieutenant

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    Yours truly -- whose political views some of the more astute here may have divined (or maybe just checked out the Information tab on my profile page) -- once started a whole thread about Allen Guelzo's interview published on the World Socialist Web Site, the website of the Fourth International, founded by Trotsky, who was only marginally less genocidal than Lenin and Stalin.
    https://civilwartalk.com/threads/un...h-internationals-website.114933/#post-1144464
    I've been known to read the occasional article in The Nation and even Jacobin along with frequent articles in The Federalist (sorry to disappoint you, @StephenColbert27, my friend!). I have condemned the celebrated Ta-Nehisi Coates when he, as I see it, deliberately tries to divide and polarize and fan flames of distrust -- yet some of his articles have moved me to tears and given me great insights, and I think I've even linked a couple of them here.

    What moved this country to that horrible Civil War in which we all take such an interest is precisely the total breakdown of dialogue. Each side demonized the other. We know how this ends. Are we going to do it again? Maybe I'm naïve, but I think we all benefit from trying to understand others' viewpoints. Simply reading someone's opinion does not endanger you in any way, nor does it mean that you have to agree with them. We are all adults here (including the remarkable teenagers on the site, God bless 'em!). Surely we can respect each other and try to learn something. If nothing else, remember the old adage: "Even a broken clock is correct twice a day!"
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2017
  19. Andersonh1

    Andersonh1 1st Lieutenant

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    Well said.
     
  20. Pat Young

    Pat Young Brev. Brig. Gen'l Forum Host Featured Book Reviewer

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    While he attacks "Progressives" for removing CBFs and statues, he has this to say about the former governor of South Carolina:

    "Gov. Nikki Haley made the wise and prudent decision to remove the Confederate flag from the statehouse grounds in Columbia"

    Hmmm, I wonder why she is spared the denunciations?
     
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  21. CMWinkler

    CMWinkler Colonel Forum Host Retired Moderator

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    Quite honestly, I don't know. Ambassador Haley isn't widely praised in Confederate Heritage circles.
     

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