Restricted New Jersey governor has had the Mississippi state flag removed from Liberty Park.

Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!
Status
Not open for further replies.

WJC

Major General
Moderator
Thread Medic
Answered the Call for Reinforcements
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
So much for the "United States", or rather not so much.
As in your country, there is rarely anything approaching 100% agreement on every issue. I submit that we like to think that our society was never divided in the past, but the reality is it has been even more divided than today.
We'll get over it!
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

BenKalba

Private
Joined
May 3, 2019
Fine for New Jersey but, what does this say about our country?

If the Federal Government didn't do it in 1865 let it alone.

Are we going backwards? So, now Mississippians are less American and their state less deserving of respect?

A lot of Mississippians died defending this country in wars since that one.

Do we strip them of the respect and honor they deserve?

Does anyone in New Jersey know that freed blacks were not welcomed with open arms there after the war? What makes New Jersey holier than any other state?

Jersey should be ashamed
 

WJC

Major General
Moderator
Thread Medic
Answered the Call for Reinforcements
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
So, now Mississippians are less American and their state less deserving of respect?
Much as I criticize the Governor's action I have no reason to think that he believes Mississippians are "less American" or that the state does not deserve respect.
His 'complaint' is the 'hate symbol' incorporated into the Mississippi flag. It makes a convenient target for him.
Though many here view the CBF as a symbol of courage and self-sacrifice, we have to remember that not so long ago it was adopted by White Supremacists as their symbol, forever changing its meaning to the world at large.
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

GwilymT

Brigadier General
Moderator
Joined
Aug 20, 2018
Location
Pittsburgh
Fine for New Jersey but, what does this say about our country?

If the Federal Government didn't do it in 1865 let it alone.

Are we going backwards? So, now Mississippians are less American and their state less deserving of respect?

A lot of Mississippians died defending this country in wars since that one.

Do we strip them of the respect and honor they deserve?

Does anyone in New Jersey know that freed blacks were not welcomed with open arms there after the war? What makes New Jersey holier than any other state?

Jersey should be ashamed
If we go by what the federal government did or didn’t do in 1865, we’d have a lot less progress and equality in this country.

I don’t see how the removal of the Mississippi flag in one park in New Jersey is going backwards. I don’t think that anyone, the Governor of New Jersey included, would claim that Mississippians are more or less American that anyone else. They just don’t feel that an emblem celebrating a pro-slavery rebellion and the worst four years of our country’s history deserves a place of honor in their state. If Mississippi wants to honor and celebrate that, it’s up to Mississippi but New Jersey certainly doesn’t have to.

A lot of Mississippians have given their life in defense of the United States. Many did so in the 1860’s. I don’t think the removal of a flag which includes a symbol that, for better or worse, is inextricably tied to white supremacy is meant in any way to disrespect those Mississippians.

No one has stripped anyone of honor or respect.

I’m sure many in New Jersey are well aware of their checkered past when it comes to race relations. The removal of what they see as a symbol of white supremacy is an effort to address those issues.

I’m sure that many in Jersey would think that Mississippi should be ashamed for having that symbol as a part of the state flag.
 
Last edited:

GwilymT

Brigadier General
Moderator
Joined
Aug 20, 2018
Location
Pittsburgh
Much as I criticize the Governor's action I have no reason to think that he believes Mississippians are "less American" or that the state does not deserve respect.
His 'complaint' is the 'hate symbol' incorporated into the Mississippi flag. It makes a convenient target for him.
Though many here view the CBF as a symbol of courage and self-sacrifice, we have to remember that not so long ago it was adopted by White Supremacists as their symbol, forever changing its meaning to the world at large.
It was adopted by white supremacists because they understood that the CSA was what the Confederates said they were... This isn’t a symbol that was stolen by white supremasists and appropriated for their own uses separated from its original intent, it’s always been a symbol of white supremacy.
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

JPK Huson 1863

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Forum Host
Joined
Feb 14, 2012
Location
Central Pennsylvania
Boy do we get both defensive and offended easily. Like we're looking for yet more reasons to be divided gee whiz. A flag being removed hasn't changed anyone's life, drawn blood, cost anyone a cent, inflicted personal harm or caused a tsunami.


I don’t see how the removal of the Mississippi flag in one park in New Jersey is going backwards. I don’t think that anyone, the Governor of New Jersey included, would claim that Mississippians are more or less American that anyone else. They just don’t feel that an emblem celebrating a pro-slavery rebellion and the worst four years of our country’s history deserves a place of honor in their state. If Mississippi wants to honor and celebrate that, it’s up to Mississippi but New Jersey certainly doesn’t have to.
Thank you.
 

Viper21

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Jul 4, 2016
Location
Rockbridge County, Virginia
Though many here view the CBF as a symbol of courage and self-sacrifice, we have to remember that not so long ago it was adopted by White Supremacists as their symbol, forever changing its meaning to the world at large.
This is such a line of dooky.... For every picture you can find of a Hater with a CBF, I could find one of a Hater with an American Flag.
 

BarryR

Private
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Location
Tampa Bay
It was adopted by white supremacists because they understood that the CSA was what the Confederates said they were... This isn’t a symbol that was stolen by white supremasists and appropriated for their own uses separated from its original intent, it’s always been a symbol of white supremacy.
I thought the rectangular version was the Army of Northern Virginia battle flag, while the rectangular one was the Army of Tennessee..Its use corrupted in the 50's and 60's by the Dixiecrats...
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

CSA Today

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Location
Laurinburg NC
Much as I criticize the Governor's action I have no reason to think that he believes Mississippians are "less American" or that the state does not deserve respect.
His 'complaint' is the 'hate symbol' incorporated into the Mississippi flag. It makes a convenient target for him.
Though many here view the CBF as a symbol of courage and self-sacrifice, we have to remember that not so long ago it was adopted by White Supremacists as their symbol, forever changing its meaning to the world at large.
Hate symbols are included in all flags, at least in some peoples' minds, so what should we do, take advantage of the silliness now in vogue and get rid of them all?
 

BenKalba

Private
Joined
May 3, 2019
Much as I criticize the Governor's action I have no reason to think that he believes Mississippians are "less American" or that the state does not deserve respect.
His 'complaint' is the 'hate symbol' incorporated into the Mississippi flag. It makes a convenient target for him.
Though many here view the CBF as a symbol of courage and self-sacrifice, we have to remember that not so long ago it was adopted by White Supremacists as their symbol, forever changing its meaning to the world at large.
We need to be careful regarding the high jacking of symbols by scum. Hitler did it with the swastika, which many cultures used as a symbol of good. There has to be a way to separate the wheat from the chafe here.
Plus, I consider it extremely insulting to have my heritage slammed because of modern day morality police. Yeah some of my family fought for the south. They were not monsters, rapists, or evil. They were men caught up in events beyond their control.
Imagine trying to not serve in WWII? Same principle
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

BenKalba

Private
Joined
May 3, 2019
Boy do we get both defensive and offended easily. Like we're looking for yet more reasons to be divided gee whiz. A flag being removed hasn't changed anyone's life, drawn blood, cost anyone a cent, inflicted personal harm or caused a tsunami.




Thank you.
I am not offended really, or defensive...well maybe a little. I just don't see the flag as a symbol of hate.

And, when you think about it, once all vestiges of the south are removed, how will anyone be able to justify perpetual victimization?

Where will the proof be? People scream about slavery but, with all that history erased and rewritten how can a legitimate claim for reparations be made?
 

byron ed

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Location
Midwest
...the the State of New Jersey can ban any state flag they wish...
But at the same time . . . the State of Mississippi can fly any banner they wish...Not everyone may agree with these facts, but there's not really much they can do about it....And that includes all Mississipians...
Uh ...there are things that can be done about it. The Mississippi flag isn't flown at any of the state's eight universities, nor at several city and county venues besides. Per this very thread, NJ has pulled the Mississippi flag from it's revue of state flags near the Statue of Liberty.
That's called doing something about it.

And it is having an effect; it's genuine pressure on Mississippians (the actual "we" of Mississippi, not the small lot of white Confederate apologists) to have the symbol of a long-defunct slave nation taken off of their flag.

Things can be corrected. We live in a country that repairs itself.
 
Last edited:
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

Rusk County Avengers

Sergeant Major
Forum Host
Joined
Apr 8, 2018
Location
Coffeeville, TX
If you go to Liberty Park to view the Statue of Liberty there will now only be 49 state flags because the Mississippi state flag was "Reprehensible" due to the Confederate symbol on the Mississippi state flag. Is this a bit too far? Way too far? Should Mississippi stop flying the New Jersey flag?

I will be going to New Jersey next spring and wonder if this could effect tourism in New Jersey.
Answering the OP, with my two cents, I think its a dumb, divisive move by New Jersey's Governor, and I personally don't see it affecting tourism.

And now my two cents.

As for the reasoning? Its flawed, under that reasoning they should also remove Georgia's flag, and seeing how it was used so much by Texans, they might as well remove the Texas flag as well. They singled out one State and did so without any apparent education of flags used by the Confederacy, so it makes the good Governor look kinda dumb in my view. Never mind the fact all it'll accomplish is dividing Americans even more instead of uniting us (like it has been said, so much for "United" States).

So many folks from every corner of the country are trying to force Mississippi change they're State Flag, one they've had since 1894, and I don't see how anyone not of Mississippi has that right. It's their flag, if they want to keep it that's their prerogative, not everyone else's. The same goes for New Jersey's Governor doing this, the display is in they're State, they pay for if they want to remove certain flags they don't like they can, but it would have been wise of them to repurpose the entire display to avoid singling out a single State and dividing the country along regional lines even more which should be a thing of the past. It may not be intentional division, but its happening nonetheless.

When all is said and done, what happens next on this controversy, is up to the voters of New Jersey. Will this become a major issue? Probably not. Will the people of New Jersey vote the Governor out and new one in? Who knows. But either way the ball is in their court now. They're chief representative started this mess it's now its up to the people of New Jersey to either solve it, call it a day, or double down.

But it won't change what flag Mississippi chooses to call their own. If I know Mississippians, and I've known quite a few, all these attacks have done is ensure that their current flag will be around and official for a very long time.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!
Top