New image shows Billy the Kid playing croquet

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diane

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I disagree. Kilmer was very entertaining but I thought Dennis Quaid in Wyatt Earp was much more realistic.
Dennis Quaid was indeed good! In fact, you may be right. My reason for preferring Kilmer is the swagger and the smirk - that was part of the real Holliday's character as well. Kevin Kostner, by the way, is one of the best cowboy actors left - every time he does a western, he's pretty good!
 

Waterloo50

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Dennis Quaid was indeed good! In fact, you may be right. My reason for preferring Kilmer is the swagger and the smirk - that was part of the real Holliday's character as well. Kevin Kostner, by the way, is one of the best cowboy actors left - every time he does a western, he's pretty good!
I read that Kilmer added a kind of 'Brando' mood to his Earp character and that his appeal, especially for female viewers was his looks. I definitely agree that Kevin Kostner is good in westerns, 'Dances with Wolves' springs to mind as a classic.
 

diane

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I read that Kilmer added a kind of 'Brando' mood to his Earp character and that his appeal, especially for female viewers was his looks. I definitely agree that Kevin Kostner is good in westerns, 'Dances with Wolves' springs to mind as a classic.
My favorite was Open Range! Right now he has a project narrating the story of the Oneida people and the American Revolution, done by Ric Burns - Ken Burns' brother. Looking forward to it.

I think Emilio Esteves did well as Billy the Kid in Young Guns but he portrayed him as a psycho - don't think he was! Bloody movie, too. However, Hollywood seems to have a hard time casting the guy - Paul Newman? Well, Billy did have blue eyes!
 

Waterloo50

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My favorite was Open Range! Right now he has a project narrating the story of the Oneida people and the American Revolution, done by Ric Burns - Ken Burns' brother. Looking forward to it.

I think Emilio Esteves did well as Billy the Kid in Young Guns but he portrayed him as a psycho - don't think he was! Bloody movie, too. However, Hollywood seems to have a hard time casting the guy - Paul Newman? Well, Billy did have blue eyes!
My favourite character had to be Lou Diamond as Chevez, my favourite line in that movie was Bushy Bill Roberts talking about Pat Garret,
'I never stole a horse from someone I didn't like. Did I like him? Hell no; I loved the son of a *****. You asked me if I have scars? Yes sir, I have my scars.'
I really like to think that Roberts was Billy, I'd love to visit Billy's grave but I'm not sure which one I would choose to visit, I read that Billy's tombstone keeps getting stolen and now they have it hidden behind bars, kind of fitting really.
Last night I became a member of the Billy the Kid Outlaw gang historical society, It means that I get a regular news letter and loads of cheap Billy the Kid books, anyhow, the BTKOG do loads of good work preserving historic sites and memorabilia so I think its worth supporting. Obviously I'm just a humble member but it would be great if one day someone looks at me and says 'It ain't your gang Dave'.
 

diane

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My favourite character had to be Lou Diamond as Chevez, my favourite line in that movie was Bushy Bill Roberts talking about Pat Garret,
'I never stole a horse from someone I didn't like. Did I like him? Hell no; I loved the son of a *****. You asked me if I have scars? Yes sir, I have my scars.'
I really like to think that Roberts was Billy, I'd love to visit Billy's grave but I'm not sure which one I would choose to visit, I read that Billy's tombstone keeps getting stolen and now they have it hidden behind bars, kind of fitting really.
Last night I became a member of the Billy the Kid Outlaw gang historical society, It means that I get a regular news letter and loads of cheap Billy the Kid books, anyhow, the BTKOG do loads of good work preserving historic sites and memorabilia so I think its worth supporting. Obviously I'm just a humble member but it would be great if one day someone looks at me and says 'It ain't your gang Dave'.
By the way, did you know John Wayne's distinctive walk and drawl was copied from Wyatt Earp? They met several times. He liked the quiet aggressiveness of Earp's moves and voice. Wyatt used to live in a little (then) town above Pasadena and took an interest in the movies, especially Westerns. He ought to know! He told John Ford exactly what happened at the OK Corral and drew him a diagram. My Darling Clementine is a good movie - Walter Brennan never played a nastier character! - but I don't know how accurately Ford followed Earp's diagram!
 

rebel brit

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My favourite character had to be Lou Diamond as Chevez, my favourite line in that movie was Bushy Bill Roberts talking about Pat Garret,
'I never stole a horse from someone I didn't like. Did I like him? Hell no; I loved the son of a *****. You asked me if I have scars? Yes sir, I have my scars.'
I really like to think that Roberts was Billy, I'd love to visit Billy's grave but I'm not sure which one I would choose to visit, I read that Billy's tombstone keeps getting stolen and now they have it hidden behind bars, kind of fitting really.
Last night I became a member of the Billy the Kid Outlaw gang historical society, It means that I get a regular news letter and loads of cheap Billy the Kid books, anyhow, the BTKOG do loads of good work preserving historic sites and memorabilia so I think its worth supporting. Obviously I'm just a humble member but it would be great if one day someone looks at me and says 'It ain't your gang Dave'.
Here's the Kid's grave , I visited Fort Sumner in New Mexico last year.
There are 2 museums in the area but only the 1 'genuine' grave site.
IMG_8632 (2).JPG

IMG_8632.JPG
 

Waterloo50

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By the way, did you know John Wayne's distinctive walk and drawl was copied from Wyatt Earp? They met several times. He liked the quiet aggressiveness of Earp's moves and voice. Wyatt used to live in a little (then) town above Pasadena and took an interest in the movies, especially Westerns. He ought to know! He told John Ford exactly what happened at the OK Corral and drew him a diagram. My Darling Clementine is a good movie - Walter Brennan never played a nastier character! - but I don't know how accurately Ford followed Earp's diagram!
I watched a documentary on Wyatt Earp in his later years, the narrator said that Earp loved Westerns but he suspected that Wyatt Earp was looking for a story that would vindicate him. It seems that Wyatt wasn't that keen on being famous, Wyatt said plenty of people wanted to shake his hand but he suspected that they were only interested in shaking the hand of a killer, he was desperate to be known as an honest and decent man, unfortunately for Wyatt he didn't live long enough to see how much of an American Icon/hero he had become.
 

diane

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I watched a documentary on Wyatt Earp in his later years, the narrator said that Earp loved Westerns but he suspected that Wyatt Earp was looking for a story that would vindicate him. It seems that Wyatt wasn't that keen on being famous, Wyatt said plenty of people wanted to shake his hand but he suspected that they were only interested in shaking the hand of a killer, he was desperate to be known as an honest and decent man, unfortunately for Wyatt he didn't live long enough to see how much of an American Icon/hero he had become.
Both Billy and Wyatt have that strange fluid image that warbles around from good guy to misunderstood guy to psycho killer guy back to good guy. Earp was deputy with Bat Masterson in Dodge City before Matt Dillon showed up to clean up the town...:wub: Did all the law-abiding things he should have done even if he wore a badge cut out of felt! (That's worse than Barney Fife keeping his bullet in his pocket.) But the same guy went on a driven madman's mission of revenge, too. Billy the Kid tried to do what his mama said - live right and do good - but he every time he got set straight something happened to kick him back on the road to perdition. The death of Tunstall, I think, made him more than a bit crazy. Tunstall wasn't exactly a paragon of virtue but he was all the father Billy knew. He'd always needed one.
 

Waterloo50

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Both Billy and Wyatt have that strange fluid image that warbles around from good guy to misunderstood guy to psycho killer guy back to good guy. Earp was deputy with Bat Masterson in Dodge City before Matt Dillon showed up to clean up the town...:wub: Did all the law-abiding things he should have done even if he wore a badge cut out of felt! (That's worse than Barney Fife keeping his bullet in his pocket.) But the same guy went on a driven madman's mission of revenge, too. Billy the Kid tried to do what his mama said - live right and do good - but he every time he got set straight something happened to kick him back on the road to perdition. The death of Tunstall, I think, made him more than a bit crazy. Tunstall wasn't exactly a paragon of virtue but he was all the father Billy knew. He'd always needed one.
I guess that Tunstall knew exactly what he was getting when he hired Billy, it probably benefited Tunstall to take care of Billy and keep him on the straight and narrow.
Billy could probably see what the outcome was likely to be if Tunstall or McSween were ever caught of guard. I wonder how much blame for the Lincoln county war should be placed on John Chisum's shoulders, I know that the smaller ranchers accused him of stealing their cattle and he likewise blamed them for selling their own cattle whilst at the same time laying the blame at his door, what a mess. Tunstall and McSween seem to be caught up in something they weren't responsible for, I wonder if they were killed just because they were allied to John Chisum, I guess that opening a shop and bank in the same street as Dolan and Murphy didn't help their situation, would I be right in thinking that Dolan had made a number of threats to Tunstall before any of the cattle rustling accusations were even made. Tunstall strikes me as a peaceful man, I don't think he ever went out of his way looking for trouble but then he was quite a smart business man, he must have understood the risks.
 

chubachus

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I'm just wondering if anyone has any more news on the latest discovery of the new Billy and Pat Garret photo. I see the Croquet photo sold for 5 Million Dollars. What will the new one be worth 'if its authentic'.
View attachment 166716
Billy's face looks completely different from the authenticated one here. And boy would that be still be a great find to get for 10 dollars.
 

diane

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I guess that Tunstall knew exactly what he was getting when he hired Billy, it probably benefited Tunstall to take care of Billy and keep him on the straight and narrow.
Billy could probably see what the outcome was likely to be if Tunstall or McSween were ever caught of guard. I wonder how much blame for the Lincoln county war should be placed on John Chisum's shoulders, I know that the smaller ranchers accused him of stealing their cattle and he likewise blamed them for selling their own cattle whilst at the same time laying the blame at his door, what a mess. Tunstall and McSween seem to be caught up in something they weren't responsible for, I wonder if they were killed just because they were allied to John Chisum, I guess that opening a shop and bank in the same street as Dolan and Murphy didn't help their situation, would I be right in thinking that Dolan had made a number of threats to Tunstall before any of the cattle rustling accusations were even made. Tunstall strikes me as a peaceful man, I don't think he ever went out of his way looking for trouble but then he was quite a smart business man, he must have understood the risks.
That's probably pretty much the gist of it, really. Heavy competitors for the same resources. There's nothing like a range war unless it's a water war! I think, too, they all carried a little something with them from the old country - the Irishmen didn't like that prosperous Englishman one bit and he didn't like them one bit either. Billy the Kid is one of those people you think would have been interesting no matter what direction his life took, it's just a shame it took a wrong direction and he ended up finished nearly before he'd been begun.
 

Waterloo50

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Billy's face looks completely different from the authenticated one here. And boy would that be still be a great find to get for 10 dollars.
The new photo of Billy has undergone facial recognition software and its shown a match, also on the photo was some handwriting, the handwriting has been identified as a signature of Pat Garret. It seems that the photo is the real deal, the croquet photo sold for five million dollars the new picture is expected to fetch a lot more, although the owner of the photo doesn't want to sell it, 'he probably doesn't need the money because he's a lawyer:sneaky: ' not bad for a $10 investment.
 

Waterloo50

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I read two days ago that this photo was proved to be not genuine. The house wasn't built until later it was stated. By not genuine meaning not Billy. Some firms have determined it as real but most recently it's been debunked to my great dismay.

gh
I also read that but you have to keep in mind that there is a hardcore element that insist there was only ever one photo of Billy, they have since been proven wrong. Remember that the chap (Randy Guijarro) who found the croquet photo was pushed from pillar to post trying to prove that his picture was genuine, he was basically laughed out of the Witherell’s Old West Show because the experts said the photo lacked provenance. It took Mr Guijarro to head out to Lincoln County and find the area where the photo was taken just to get some kind of evidence to prove that it was indeed Billy and the Regulators, after four years of research he was able to prove that his tintype was indeed taken on the Tunstall ranch (evidence enough)
Even now there are so called experts that deny the authenticity of the croquet photo, I sometimes wonder if it has something to do with preserving the myth of Billy the Kid, if there are other photos out there then people will obviously learn something new about Billy, who would ever have thought of Billy being dressed in fine clothes whilst playing croquet, also, every time someone provides something new about Billy then it challenges long held beliefs and people have to rethink what they know and that includes those that consider themselves to be 'experts'. Its not a bad thing that the experts insist on solid evidence but sometimes it gets ridiculous, if facial recognition software and matching handwriting samples isn't enough then I don't know what is.
 
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