need some advice. . .

ranger326

Private
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Location
Mount Juliet TN
Hello all,

New to "CivilWarTalk". I have a great-grandfather who was in the 133 rd PA infantry ( his father was as well!), got wounded at Fredericksburg and was mustered out at the end of his 9 months tour. Then a year or so later, he enlisted in the 22nd PA Cavalry. I have his original saber, cap and service poster.

So here's the questions; from my meager research I have learned that he probably was issued an "Austrian" musket that was traded in later for a "new" musket ( I'm guessing a 1861 Springfield). This was as an infantryman. In the cavalry, I think he carried a Spencer carbine. Does this sound reasonable? Next question, if these are indeed the arms he carried, I would like to acquire at least one of the weapons that he probably had. If I was rich (I am not), I would just go buy two antiques for show and two reproductions for shooting. But I can only afford one. So the question is, what should I get? Repro or antique? Cavalry or Infantry? I would much appreciate reading some valid arguments either way.

Thanks for listening.

d
 
Ranger 326--
It really depends upon what you want from your firearms. I understand why you might want a Springfield and a Spencer; having those same type weapons that your G-Grandfather carried would tie you to the history and make you feel a part of it. That's the same reason many of us visit the battlefields upon which our ancestors fought, or study those battles, or reenact, etc. You see two different ways of creating that bond; by having a set of original weapons to show or a set of reproduction weapons that you could shoot. I guess the question you need to answer is, which in your heart and mind would provide the strongest bond? Would holding a piece of history do it for you, or would reenacting that history do it? I surely can't answer that question for you, but I do think that either way is equally valid and I praise your desire to honor your G-Grandfather.
I must also say that I'm extremely jealous that you have some actual artifacts from your ancestor; all I have are a couple of downloaded copies of post-war photos and unit histories, nothing original.
Regarding your selection of weapons, I suggest you do some in-depth research to verify exactly which weapons your ancestor likely was issued. There are a number of forum members that can help you on the "Weapons and Ammunitions" forum here on CivilWarTalk.
Oh, and welcome aboard the forum from Hampton Roads, Virginia. I look forward to reading your future posts...and perhaps seeing some pictures of your "new" weapons when you finally get them.
 
Well on your question or repro or antique... it depends. Will you have more fun shooting? Or do you like going to shows to show off you're guns?
 
A big and warm Texas welcome, ranger326!

You have come to the right place for all things CW. As mentioned above, there will be several member who can help you with your questions.

Looking forward to learning of your decision!

--BBF
 
Let's move this to the proper forum.....this is more for us to help you look up info. Obviously you already have a good deal! (We'd be happy to help further, of course).....
 
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Respectfully, I don't think the post from Ranger236 is inappropriate for this forum. After all, he's asking about original versus repro, and shooting either one. That is also something that we expound upon!

J.
 
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In a word don't bother w/ a repop. Go original and you'll have something you can pass on to your kids.

Lodgewood http://www.lodgewood.com/ currently has a Spencer Carbine w/ a Center Fire block which would allow you to live fire it. Even w/ that Center Fire block you're looking at $4-6 per round sent down range by the time you get brass, primers, powder & ball that's on top of the almost $3k price for the carbine.

They also have an original M1863 for under $900 they also have a Colt Special Model for $750 and a M1864 that has been bored out to a shotgun but looks mostly there. All three are affordable options & Lodgewood could easily attach replacement original sights & sling swivels for a reasonable fee.

http://www.lodgewood.com/1860-Spencer-Carbine-with-Center-Fire-Block_p_537.html
http://www.lodgewood.com/1861-Colt-Special-Model_p_474.html
http://www.lodgewood.com/m1863-Springfield-Type-2_p_1025.html
http://www.lodgewood.com/m1863-Springfield-Type-1_p_479.html
 
First...welcome to the boards.
IMHO...I'd prefer an original to a repro...not that there is anything wrong with a reproduced weapon, but the repros just don't have the real history that an original has...it's a feeling I can't describe.
 
Thank you for all of the replies! The advice is much valued and appreciated. I am glad that the "slant" seems to be on obtaining an original.
Hopefully I will come across a source that can say what arms my GGrandfather carried for sure. At that point, I feel like I could legitimately make a purchase.

ranger326
 
Sounds right. I found this from a member of the same regiment but a different company:

"At Washington the arms originally received were exchanged for Springfield muskets, heavy camp equipage was turned over to be stored, company tents were exchanged for light shelter tents, and sixty rounds of ammunition per man were received."

It was suggested to me that the "arms originally received" was most "probably" Austrian.

ranger326
 
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Join a N-SSA unit and you will be able to fire your rifle-musket and Spencer in competition! There is nothing like standing shoulder to shoulder and listen to the "Roll and Thunder of Musketry" at a N-SSA Nationals at Fort Shenandoah, Virginia,-and just like the real war, live Minie Balls by the thousands are going downrange!

Check the N-SSA out:

www.n-ssa.org/
 
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Thanks again for all the input. I think I'll look for an "original" weapon that would have been one he most probably carried. Like most folks I know, I'll be happy with the best gun I can get for the least amount of money not trading on quality.

That made me think of another question that maybe you folks could answer or send me where I need to go to get an answer.

Ok, I know that ggrandfather was in the PA Cavalry. Would he have carried a pistol? None of my research thus far says anything definitive for either carrying a pistol or for not carrying. And if he did carry a pistol, what would be the probable arm he would have carried? If it's relevant, he never rose above the rank of private as far as I know.

Thanks again.

ranger326
 
Thanks again for all the input. I think I'll look for an "original" weapon that would have been one he most probably carried. Like most folks I know, I'll be happy with the best gun I can get for the least amount of money not trading on quality.

That made me think of another question that maybe you folks could answer or send me where I need to go to get an answer.

Ok, I know that ggrandfather was in the PA Cavalry. Would he have carried a pistol? None of my research thus far says anything definitive for either carrying a pistol or for not carrying. And if he did carry a pistol, what would be the probable arm he would have carried? If it's relevant, he never rose above the rank of private as far as I know.

Thanks again.

ranger326
He may not have carried a pistol at all. There were US Cav Regts at the end of the war w/out enough pistols to arms their men. In many cases A regt might have 2 Troops/Cos armed w/ pistols only , another 2 w/ sabres only & the rest w/ carbines only or a variation therof. Some Regts had no pistols at all or no swords or no carbines. It really was campaign & time frame specific, especially w/ Regts serving west of the Appalachians.

I would suggest finding a Regt history or taking a look at the state archives to see what they have on the Regt.
 
Go the the National Archives Library nearest you and check the "Compiled Service Records" of his unit. Often times you can get an idea of what his unit was armed with by the ammunition it was issued.

IF he was issued a pistol(s) then the odds are that it was either a M1860 Colt .44 or a New Model 1858 Remington in .44 because the government purchased the most of these two models. Of course, both models (and others) used the same cartridges.
 
Thanks johan. I would not have guessed at the variation of armament among the different cavalry groups. My g-grandfather was part of theCavalry Corps, commanded by Major General Alfred T.A. Torbert in the Army of the Shenandoah and as such was involved with the valley campaigns of 1864. I have his sabre which is dated 1865 so I'm guessing it's unlikely he carried this particular sword in 1864. It does make you wish he was around to ask.

Also, thanks to Southron for suggesting the Nat'l Archives re. ammunition records. I have his personnel records (such as they are) from the Archives but did not think to research ammunition records.

Regards,
ranger 326
 
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