Need Info on Possible Calvary Sword?

banderse

Private
Joined
Apr 16, 2020
Looks like union cavalry wrist breaker but not sure. Please see attached markings (marked in 2 spots with “17” and SH— maker stamp). Any info on this would be appreciated!

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banderse

Private
Joined
Apr 16, 2020
Thinking M1840 Sheble & Fisher (Philadelphia). If so, anyone know what unit may have used this? Keep wondering what the 17 means. And wondering yr it was made.
 

bobinwmass

Sergeant
Joined
Jul 14, 2019
Location
Western Massachusetts
Given the arching maker mark, I would agree it's a Sheble & Fisher. At work now so away from my reference books, but if I remember correctly they are pre-Civil War and likely made for state and militia contracts. Don't recall them having a Federal contract during the war, but could be wrong. Possibly could have been used by either North or South, but no way to tell by whom. 17 likely a rack number for where stored in armory.
 

bobinwmass

Sergeant
Joined
Jul 14, 2019
Location
Western Massachusetts
Thillmann doesn't have much more to say about them in his book on cavalry and artillery sabers, just that like all Sheble and Fisher products, they are scarce, and that the sword making part of the company is not well understood. They apparently made things like pitchforks. The 1863 Philadelphia City Directory does mention them making sabers. While no contract for cavalry sabers is known, they did have a contract with the US Government for 203 artillery sabers in 1861.
 

banderse

Private
Joined
Apr 16, 2020
Thank you for the info! I wish there were a way to know if this was artillery or calvalry. Don’t think there’s a way though sadly.
 

ucvrelics

Colonel
Forum Host
Regtl. Quartermaster Shiloh 2020
Asst. Regtl. Quartermaster Antietam 2021
Joined
May 7, 2016
Location
Alabama
Nice sword. Anything made by S&F is rare. When the war started S&F was making farm implement so they are the true story of turning plow shares into sword. S&F started making these model 1840's sword after the war started when the norm at the time was the model 1860 light cav sword. They also made M1840 NCO swords, light artillery sabers, and M1860 cutlasses. The only contract they had with the US Army was for a small # of light artillery swords. All others were made for State and Militia issues. The reason the never got a contract was quality which you can see in yours with the guard coming loos, the wire wrap coming off and if you look at the pommel end the blade was not fully tanged and the whole grip would come off. The did make a FEW, VERY FEW model 1860's but they are RARE and worth a lot. What is the length of the blade on yours? Also, below is the S&F mark which is the only mark you will find as with no US Army contract you would noy have a US, date or inspector marks.
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Joined
Mar 21, 2016
Location
Northern Virginia
They also made M1840 NCO swords, light artillery sabers, and M1860 cutlasses.
What info do you have that S&F made the M1861 cutlass? Other than Ames, the only other M1861 I have seen is the rare Tiffany cutlass. There would have been very little non-Federal demand for S&F cutlasses since during the CW no State had a Naval militia. Ames had the exclusive contracts for provision of cutlasses to the Navy and the Revenue Cutter Service (predecessor of the US Coast Guard) and even produced 300 cutlasses for the Army in 1864 to arm Howard's "marine artillery" unit manning gun boats on the York River other streams. If S&F made cutlasses, to whom did they sell them and for what purpose?
 

banderse

Private
Joined
Apr 16, 2020
Nice sword. Anything made by S&F is rare. When the war started S&F was making farm implement so they are the true story of turning plow shares into sword. S&F started making these model 1840's sword after the war started when the norm at the time was the model 1860 light cav sword. They also made M1840 NCO swords, light artillery sabers, and M1860 cutlasses. The only contract they had with the US Army was for a small # of light artillery swords. All others were made for State and Militia issues. The reason the never got a contract was quality which you can see in yours with the guard coming loos, the wire wrap coming off and if you look at the pommel end the blade was not fully tanged and the whole grip would come off. The did make a FEW, VERY FEW model 1860's but they are RARE and worth a lot. What is the length of the blade on yours? Also, below is the S&F mark which is the only mark you will find as with no US Army contract you would noy have a US, date or inspector marks.
View attachment 404675
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Looks like 35” blade
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ucvrelics

Colonel
Forum Host
Regtl. Quartermaster Shiloh 2020
Asst. Regtl. Quartermaster Antietam 2021
Joined
May 7, 2016
Location
Alabama
At least I think that’s how you measure it
No use it with the curve of the blade. It looks like it will be 36 inchs which is what a model 1840 is. A model 1860 is 35 inchs.
What info do you have that S&F made the M1861 cutlass?
It was suppose to be model 1860 cav sword. Glad to see your still out there keeping us straight:D
 
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