Need help identifying this weapon- new to CWT. Bought this at an auction. Would like to identify brand and model. Notice two leaf springs BETWEEN the

tankredi

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In case you ever wondered how these insects look like, here's a couple of pictures of them "at work", shot this morning.
The flies are planting their eggs in some beech wood, same wood as the Lorenz stock is made of.

flies (3).jpg


flies (2).jpg
 

James N.

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In case you ever wondered how these insects look like, here's a couple of pictures of them "at work", shot this morning.
The flies are planting their eggs in some beech wood, same wood as the Lorenz stock is made of.

View attachment 405253

View attachment 405254
Thanks - I know they're quite a pest where European antique furniture is concerned - that may be where I first read about them, though of course they obviously and unfortunately LIKE wooden gun stocks as well!
 

bayonet

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What are the larvae, worms, or beetles that eat sideways (not making a hole straight down) in wood? The pattern sometimes looks squiggly.
 

tankredi

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@Jeff
The bark has been attacked by bark beetles (Scolytinae) . These beetles have been a big problem in the woods in Europe in the last 2 summers. I was told they were also a problem Canada.
However they only attack pinewood.

The worms or bugs that attack beech wood such as the Lorenz stock and my firewood are of a different species.
 
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bayonet

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Good to know. Now that's where I've that on my firewood. As a collector it's good to know that only those pin holes happen on European stocks not American. While it may show it's not a ACW used weapon on old Flintlocks it could of been used here in our Rev War but simply traveled back to Europe with that Unit when the Rev War ended. Yeah it's well know GIs from WW1 & WW2 or the Occupation brought back a lot of these older weapons.
 

Jeff in Ohio

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But they are all beetles of some sort or another.
It may be that the photo I selected to post was of pine bark, but I can assure you that when I was growing up on the farm some sixty years ago in Ohio, we had no pines, no beech trees, mostly oaks and ashes, and when they died, they all had these under the bark marks showing when they died and the bark fell off.
And the holes straight down into the wood are either powder post beetles, or a related beetle.
 

bayonet

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I don't know much about wood eating beetles, but the fact that the Lorenz subject to this thread has an Enfield hammer on it is a good indication that this gun was used in America. Just my two cents anyway.
Well James N (Colonel) already stated those holes in the stock only come from European wood eating beetles. So "used in America" does not add up as far as a CW weapon. If that beat up hammer is an Enfield than the gun is a parts gun or Frankenstein.
 

James N.

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Well James N (Colonel) already stated those holes in the stock only come from European wood eating beetles. So "used in America" does not add up as far as a CW weapon. If that beat up hammer is an Enfield than the gun is a parts gun or Frankenstein.
I don't know for a fact that we don't have a similar pest here, though I don't believe I've ever heard of any, and hoped that if one in fact does exist some of our other members would correct me. The little Belgian-made French Revolutionary musketoon is the only one of my firearm collection that shows the problem, including several other pieces of European origin.
 

Jeff in Ohio

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I don't know for a fact that we don't have a similar pest here, though I don't believe I've ever heard of any, and hoped that if one in fact does exist some of our other members would correct me. The little Belgian-made French Revolutionary musketoon is the only one of my firearm collection that shows the problem, including several other pieces of European origin.

Let me say it clearly - All parts of the United States are home to the powder post beetles, and the larvae of the powder post beetle is what makes those holes in the wood.
According to Wikipedia, "Powderpost beetles are a group of seventy species of woodboring beetles classified in the insect subfamily Lyctinae." They are found in every state. In addition to seeing their damage in gunstocks and old furniture (always in the US), I have seen their damage in Ohio grown firewood and in the oak timbers of an 1890s barn on the family farm here in Ohio (trees cut on the farm, milled on the farm, and erected on the farm. I am quite sure that that those oak timbers didn't travel to Europe to get infected
 
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bayonet

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Let me say it clearly - All parts of the United States are home to the powder post beetles, and the larvae of the powder post beetle is what makes those holes in the wood.
According to Wikipedia, "Powderpost beetles are a group of seventy species of woodboring beetles classified in the insect subfamily Lyctinae." They a found in every state. In addition to seeing their damage in gunstocks and old furniture, I have seen their damage in Ohio grown firewood and in the oak timbers of an 1890s barn on the family farm here in Ohio (trees cut on the farm, milled on the farm, and erected on the farm. I am quite sure that that those oak timbers didn't travel to Europe to get infected.
Well I guess I was right from the beginning having seen them on stocks long ago. So the a Sergeant schooled the Colonel, good to be an Enlistmen :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: !!!
 

Package4

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Those "pin holes" in the stock are usually evidence of European powder-post beetle larva which bores into and eats wood; one of my French Revolutionary musketoons has them pretty badly. They had been plugged with wax and I didn't realize they were there, or at least how bad they were until I rather stupidly washed the stock to remove old oil, grease, etc. and they became glaringly obvious. Fortunately a coat of fresh linseed oil made them once again less apparent. To me this suggests that your Lorenz *may* have spent most of its life IN Europe where these little bast*rds are found - I'm not aware of similar insect pests on our continent. If so, like mine it could've come here much later and not have seen service in "our" war; maybe it was a G.I.'s "souvenir" after WWII.
Actually those are not uncommon to the US, just called, I think "post beetles"; last weekend we were doing artillery training at Sharpsburg and a friend brought over an Enfield that had been found by an ancestor on their farm after the battle. The musket had been bored out, stock shortened and used as a fowler by the Poffenburgers, even had a round still in the barrel (steel bird shot and wadding)! Long story short, it had been badly stored and the beetles ate so much that the butt plate was gone! The Enfield was legit and had all the correct markings, just chewed up.........There were many small pin holes and larger destruction where they really let loose.
 
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