Restricted National Museum of Civil War Medicine considers removing Confederate flag from logo in the midst of a rebranding campaign

W. Richardson

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Jun 29, 2011
Location
Mt. Gilead, North Carolina
Appropriately so yes :smile: "When will then be now? ... Soon"


Well then can never be now, for once then becomes now, it then is no longer then................lol
Was then ever now? If I am talking about way back then, was it ever a now? lol
I guess now can become a then, but once now becomes then it is no longer now..................Right>> lol

Now then I have confused myself....................:smile:

Respectfully,
William
 

MattL

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Aug 20, 2015
Location
SF Bay Area
There is a movement to remove the Washington Monument, The Jefferson Monument where does one draw the line?

You can always find people that have passed the line you (or I) have drawn. I mean there are and have always been a whole lot of crazy movements, some of which have a surprisingly large amount of people behind them and are inappropriate to talk on this forum.

Not dismissing your point, just commenting that in the greater context there are movements that cross countless lines always coming and going.
 
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7thWisconsin

Sergeant Major
Joined
Nov 21, 2014
I think it's important to consider that the logo of the museum is not an exhibit in the museum. It's used in marketing, advertising and merchandise that is going to be seen by people who didn't pay admission to the museum, hoping to get them to do so at some time in the future. If the logo contains elements which are off-putting - or in this instance actually prevented the museum from advertising- then they need to design a new logo that continues to speak to their mission and vision, but communicates that in a way that is inviting to a modern audience. That's not watering down the history. You can put a disclaimer at the entrance that says "Due to the nature of the times, the CBF will be displayed in historical context within." You can't put that on the coffee mug on someone's desk at work, or on the trifold advert. "The CBF belongs in a museum." is not the same as "The CBF belongs on a museum's merchandise." I appreciate the dilemma. I also appreciate the feeling of surprise "gosh - we never thought about it that way."
 

Rick Richter

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Dec 6, 2012
I just wish people would leave things a lone. It is history, history cannot be changed . We all have to accept history whether it is perceived as good or bad. We cannot change the past. It is now and the future we can influence.

Well said. In this case, removing any reference to North/South, Federal/Confederate makes even less sense. The study of Civil War medicine is so much about individual struggle, compassion, and overcoming the results of the partisan battles. The fact that both sides were involved in so many ways with each others casualties makes this area particularly poignant, and keeping the fact that they were at war with each front and center other brings this out.
 

NH Civil War Gal

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I think it's important to consider that the logo of the museum is not an exhibit in the museum. It's used in marketing, advertising and merchandise that is going to be seen by people who didn't pay admission to the museum, hoping to get them to do so at some time in the future. If the logo contains elements which are off-putting - or in this instance actually prevented the museum from advertising- then they need to design a new logo that continues to speak to their mission and vision, but communicates that in a way that is inviting to a modern audience. That's not watering down the history. You can put a disclaimer at the entrance that says "Due to the nature of the times, the CBF will be displayed in historical context within." You can't put that on the coffee mug on someone's desk at work, or on the trifold advert. "The CBF belongs in a museum." is not the same as "The CBF belongs on a museum's merchandise." I appreciate the dilemma. I also appreciate the feeling of surprise "gosh - we never thought about it that way."

Those are good points. And most unexpectedly, as of this morning, I have to be in Maryland next week, near Frederick and I'm planning on going over there to talk to them about this and try to find out more. If I can find out more, I will do a report on it for everyone.
 

Dave D

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Feb 21, 2019
Confederate color bearers died while holding and defending their flag. Union soldiers were awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor for capturing a Confederate flag. It was a important artifact.

Now days, if people see a 34 star US flag, they probably would not realize that it as a civil war era flag however, I don't know of anyone, North or South, who does not recognize the Confederate Battle Flag as a symbol (some may object to the word "icon") from the US Civil War.

Incorporating the Confederate & US flags with the medical caduceus in the logo of the National Museum of Civil War Medicine would seem to be a reasonable symbol of their mission:
civil-war-medicine-logo2.png
 
Joined
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Location
Southwest Mississippi
Actually the present becomes history once it stops being the present. Yesterday was, at one time the present, but today yesterday is now history..

As I always say: yesterday's tomorrow is tomorrow's yesterday.

BJ

I'm reminded of this quote:

The past is never dead. It's not even past.

― William Faulkner
 

MattL

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Confederate color bearers died while holding and defending their flag. Union soldiers were awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor for capturing a Confederate flag. It was a important artifact.

Now days, if people see a 34 star US flag, they probably would not realize that it as a civil war era flag however, I don't know of anyone, North or South, who does not recognize the Confederate Battle Flag as a symbol (some may object to the word "icon") from the US Civil War.

Incorporating the Confederate & US flags with the medical caduceus in the logo of the National Museum of Civil War Medicine would seem to be a reasonable symbol of their mission:
View attachment 323565

I don't think anyone has made the argument that the CBF doesn't communicate the concept. There are a million ways to communicate a concept however, they are considering going to a different one. I disagree personally, I'd leave it alone, but we should also not get carried away and forget that there are countless different ways to make such a logo that don't include one or either of the flags.

For example you could have various WWII related history groups that do or don't include all the flags of the people involved or not, or maybe none at all.
 

W. Richardson

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Location
Mt. Gilead, North Carolina
I don't think anyone has made the argument that the CBF doesn't communicate the concept. There are a million ways to communicate a concept however, they are considering going to a different one. I disagree personally, I'd leave it alone, but we should also not get carried away and forget that there are countless different ways to make such a logo that don't include one or either of the flags.

For example you could have various WWII related history groups that do or don't include all the flags of the people involved or not, or maybe none at all.


This is true..............Perhaps a logo with a good old and simple Blue and Gray map of the United & Confederate states of America.

Respectfully,
William

usa-civil 1.jpg
 

W. Richardson

Captain
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Location
Mt. Gilead, North Carolina
I think it's important to consider that the logo of the museum is not an exhibit in the museum. It's used in marketing, advertising and merchandise that is going to be seen by people who didn't pay admission to the museum, hoping to get them to do so at some time in the future. If the logo contains elements which are off-putting - or in this instance actually prevented the museum from advertising- then they need to design a new logo that continues to speak to their mission and vision, but communicates that in a way that is inviting to a modern audience. That's not watering down the history. You can put a disclaimer at the entrance that says "Due to the nature of the times, the CBF will be displayed in historical context within." You can't put that on the coffee mug on someone's desk at work, or on the trifold advert. "The CBF belongs in a museum." is not the same as "The CBF belongs on a museum's merchandise." I appreciate the dilemma. I also appreciate the feeling of surprise "gosh - we never thought about it that way."


@7thWisconsin Good points, but in attempting to garner those to visit who have not, you do not want to lose those who do visit and do not see the CBF as a controversial or racist symbol. There are many who see it as racist, there are many who do not see it as racist, and there are many, many more who do not care one way or the other.

Respectfully,
William

One Nation,
Two countries
Confed-American Flag - Thumbnail.jpg
 

7thWisconsin

Sergeant Major
Joined
Nov 21, 2014
How about something like an oval field with a pronounced border, suggestive of a belt or cartridge box plate, with the old English M S separated by a caduceus? Box plates were the same essentially, on both sides, and the rifled musket was the greatest producer of battlefield casualties. The MS device was common to both medical services, and the caduceus has been the symbol of the medical art for centuries. Plus it could be reproduced in black and white, or color if you use green, the Medical Services branch color, as the field behind the letters.
 

NH Civil War Gal

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Okay - My first full day in Maryland and boy is it hot! I've gone from delivering people at the Reagan airport at 7:30 this morning to Frederick for lunch. I went to the Museum for Civil War Medicine and talked to the docent in the gift shop. I explained this was my 4th visit there, I'm not affiliated with any newspaper or anything like that, I just want to know what's going on. She said they can't say anything legally, other than they are evolving from "adolescence to maturity." They are working with a branding company (won't say which one), and gave me the card of David Price, the executive director. She said they are telling everyone who has a concern to send an email to him. His email is [email protected].

I would stress to please keep things civil when sending an email. Yelling isn't going to make you heard.

I did ask her if they had hard figures on the Confederate flag turning people away and while she waffled and said she didn't have authority, I kind of got the feeling they don't have hard figures, but PLEASE don't bring her into an email. I think they are concerned about future growth (they are currently growing and want that to continue) and are trying to head off trouble at the pass.

By trouble - I went to Mt. Olivet cemetery, just around the corner where Francis Scott Key is buried and 408 CSA soldiers (pictures coming when I get home) and there is a big wooden sign historical sign with the US Flag and Confederate Flag, similar to the Civil War Medicine Museum logo and someone has tried to split the plywood part of the Confederate Flag off. I'm sure the Civil War Medical Museum is aware of that. I was last at Mt. Olivet 2-years-ago (even though I was at the Medical Museum last December) and the sign had not been vandalized then.

The only thing I noticed that I felt a bit bad about is their used book case seemed very expensive to me this time. I've always gotten some great finds there. They are all donations. But for example, a number of used books were $25.00 and a Blue and Gray magazine, Volume 1, Issue 6 was $20.00. She double checked that one because I, glancing at it, thought it had said $2.00. She said someone upstairs is doing the pricing now. I would have picked up a couple of books for 10.00, maybe 15.00 (considering I have so many I still need to read), but $25.00 and up is starting to push it.

So I've done my bit fellow soldiers.
 
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