Restricted National Cathedral to Replace Confederate-Themed Stained Glass With Art Dedicated to Racial Justice

bdtex

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No, their faith provides no cover for their actions during the rebellion to me.
One man's opinion. You and I will never agree on that. This is where the discussion ends between you and me. I don't care to carry the disagreement to other threads. Good day sir.
 

unionblue

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One man's opinion. You and I will never agree on that. This is where the discussion ends between you and me. I don't care to carry the disagreement to other threads. Good day sir.
@bdtex ,

Yes, this is ONE man's opinion, mine, and apparently so far, mine alone. I have no problem having it, discussing it, or debating it, as this is a forum.

My main point is, no one should use religion as a cover for acts of wrong. My goodness, I'm sure the priests who burned Indians at the stake thought themselves true believers and I am certain those who tortured Jews during the Spanish Inqusition were sincerely of the view they were doing God's work. There are plenty of other historical examples of 'God is on my side' horrors.

Religious beliefs are not a blank check made out to 'always right.'

In my own opinion, that's why Lee and Jackson should go to a museum instead of being placed on a stained glass window in a house of worship.
 
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Cycom

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It's part of the same pattern we've seen over the past few years of removing reminders of American history from the landscape. It's not an isolated incident to be considered strictly on its own merits, though as I said I think there are circumstances here that are different from a battlefield or courthouse lawn monument. You could say that removing any memorial does not erase actual history, but if we don't need reminders of our history, why do we have any monuments at all? They serve an important purpose. "Lest we forget..." is a phrase I hear often with regard to Confederate memorials, and I think it's a valid warning.

When I visited Gettysburg a few years back, it clarified some of this for me. Those monuments on that battlefield drove home that two armies had once been there better than any marker or plaque ever could have. Did I need any of them to tell me that a battle had been fought there? No, I already knew that. But the presence of a physical object on that field representing a portion of those armies made it real to me in a way that I can't quite describe.

I think the removal of monuments from the landscape does have an effect on historical awareness and memory, and I think that's the goal here, ultimately.
Very well stated, andersonh.
 

unionblue

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It's part of the same pattern we've seen over the past few years of removing reminders of American history from the landscape. It's not an isolated incident to be considered strictly on its own merits, though as I said I think there are circumstances here that are different from a battlefield or courthouse lawn monument. You could say that removing any memorial does not erase actual history, but if we don't need reminders of our history, why do we have any monuments at all? They serve an important purpose. "Lest we forget..." is a phrase I hear often with regard to Confederate memorials, and I think it's a valid warning.

When I visited Gettysburg a few years back, it clarified some of this for me. Those monuments on that battlefield drove home that two armies had once been there better than any marker or plaque ever could have. Did I need any of them to tell me that a battle had been fought there? No, I already knew that. But the presence of a physical object on that field representing a portion of those armies made it real to me in a way that I can't quite describe.

I think the removal of monuments from the landscape does have an effect on historical awareness and memory, and I think that's the goal here, ultimately.
No one is removing history.

They're removing monuments and memorials.
 

Pete Longstreet

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Any serious student of Lee, & Jackson knows, these were two very religious men. While it is true, even with their years of service in the US military, they are both best known for their service in the CS Army. However, looking in to the men themselves, it doesn't take long to figure out their personal faith was paramount in their lives. I'd dare say, the most important thing to both of them.
I'm currently reading Robert E Lee Recollections and Letters (almost finished with it). I knew Lee was a religious man, but I did not know his true devotion to God and his beliefs. Every letter in this book he refers to his religion in some shape or form and was much more religious than I had anticipated. I've also come to admire him as a father. He writes "your devoted father " in all his letters to his sons. Although I am not a religious man, I don't see it as strange that Lee and Jackson ended up in a place of worship. I'm glad the Lee glass has remained intact and hope the same for Jackson's. These and others related need to be preserved, even if they are removed from their original location and not dumped or destroyed.
 

jcaesar

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I'm currently reading Robert E Lee Recollections and Letters (almost finished with it). I knew Lee was a religious man, but I did not know his true devotion to God and his beliefs. Every letter in this book he refers to his religion in some shape or form and was much more religious than I had anticipated. I've also come to admire him as a father. He writes "your devoted father " in all his letters to his sons. Although I am not a religious man, I don't see it as strange that Lee and Jackson ended up in a place of worship. I'm glad the Lee glass has remained intact and hope the same for Jackson's. These and others related need to be preserved, even if they are removed from their original location and not dumped or destroyed.
His letters are the right place to look to understand the real man and his thinking.

His words sans filter are the most honest accounting of the man and his views you will get.
 
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unionblue

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I'm currently reading Robert E Lee Recollections and Letters (almost finished with it). I knew Lee was a religious man, but I did not know his true devotion to God and his beliefs. Every letter in this book he refers to his religion in some shape or form and was much more religious than I had anticipated. I've also come to admire him as a father. He writes "your devoted father " in all his letters to his sons. Although I am not a religious man, I don't see it as strange that Lee and Jackson ended up in a place of worship. I'm glad the Lee glass has remained intact and hope the same for Jackson's. These and others related need to be preserved, even if they are removed from their original location and not dumped or destroyed.
His letters are the right place to look to understand the real man and his thinking.
The book, Reading The Man: A Portrait Of Robert E. Lee Through His Private Letters, by Elizabeth Brown Pryor, could help further understand the man.
 
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