Forrest Nathan Bedford Forrest's changing beliefs?

FloydandZ

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Of course Nathan Bedford Forrest is one of the most famous confederates. He also has the infamous claim to being the first grand wizard of the KKK. However, Nathan would later disband the KKK (or so it's claimed) and distance himself from the group. He was also a slave trader before the civil war which was not a business for those who are sensitive. Slave traders were greatly disliked even among slaveholders. They did the dirty business. His former slaves described him as being terrifyingly brutal. And of course not to forget, he was also blamed for the massacre of surrendering black union troops in the Battle of Fort pillow. It's said that he extremely hated black union troops and a Confederate cavalryman once recounted how Forrest "cussed [him] out" for failing to execute a captured black Union soldier.

Moreover, other descriptions do not portray him kindly. Apparently he shot his own men if they tried to shirk a battle. Furthermore, he was to be given "to duels and furious arguments, oversaw savage whippings of recalcitrant slaves, shaded the truth in his own behalf repeatedly, and once wrongly shot innocent "deserters."

And his time apart of the KKK is also not pretty. He "intend[ed]" to kill radical Republicans. He added that he could raise 40,000 men in four days. It said that he disbanded the KKK once it became violent; however, the KKK had already been violent under his leadership and it successfully ended up terrifying the blacks and republicans from voting. When questioned by congress, he would always deny being apart of the KKK even though he was the leader.

Sherman described him as the 'devil' who should be "hunted down and killed if it costs 10,000 lives and bankrupts the treasury."

However, it appears that close to the end of his life, he had gone through radical (I say radical considering his history) change of beliefs about the black southern population. Although he may just be acting for some reason.

This is a speech he made in 1875 (he would die two years later):

I will say to you and to the colored race that men who bore arms and followed the flag of the Confederacy are, with very few exceptions, your friends. I have an opportunity of saying what I have always felt – that I am your friend, for my interests are your interests, and your interests are my interests. We were born on the same soil, breathe the same air, and live in the same land. Why, then, can we not live as brothers? I will say that when the war broke out I felt it my duty to stand by my people. When the time came I did the best I could, and I don't believe I flickered. I came here with the jeers of some white people, who think that I am doing wrong. I believe that I can exert some influence, and do much to assist the people in strengthening fraternal relations, and shall do all in my power to bring about peace. It has always been my motto to elevate every man- to depress none. I want to elevate you to take positions in law offices, in stores, on farms, and wherever you are capable of going.
I have not said anything about politics today. I don't propose to say anything about politics. You have a right to elect whom you please; vote for the man you think best, and I think, when that is done, that you and I are freemen. Do as you consider right and honest in electing men for office. I did not come here to make you a long speech, although invited to do so by you. I am not much of a speaker, and my business prevented me from preparing myself. I came to meet you as friends, and welcome you to the white people. I want you to come nearer to us. When I can serve you I will do so. We have but one flag, one country; let us stand together. We may differ in color, but not in sentiment. Use your best judgement in selecting men for office and vote as you think right.
Many things have been said about me which are wrong, and which white and black persons here, who stood by me through the war, can contradict. I have been in the heat of battle when colored men, asked me to protect them. I have placed myself between them and the bullets of my men, and told them they should be kept unharmed. Go to work, be industrious, live honestly and act truly, and when you are oppressed I'll come to your relief. I thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for this opportunity you have afforded me to be with you, and to assure you that I am with you in heart and in hand.


Does anyone know or understand why he made a speech like this? Did the radical republicans manage to blackmail him into saying this or something? It just seems greatly inconsistent with his character and his past actions. It comes off as obvious lies too.​
 
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"Does anyone know or understand why he made a speech like this?"

The short answer is this. Forrest's speech to the Pole-Bearers was very specific to the circumstances that existed in Memphis in the summer of 1875. There had been a rising amount of racial tension in Memphis through the preceding months, with some incidents of serious violence. The Pole-Bearers, an African American self-defense group with chapters around the South, had been implicated in some of that. Memphis had had a series of very violent riots in 1866, and there was a strong desire to head off another episode like that. Reconstruction was ending that year in Tennessee, and the Democratic Party was re-asserting itself and its governance of the state. A resurgence of large-scale racial violence threatened that, and Forrest's speech was intended to help defuse the situation. Forrest, who was widely understood to have been the Grand Wizard of the Klan, was better positioned than anyone in the region to make that effort to reach across to the Pole-Bearers with a gesture of, if not genuine reconciliation, at least a sort of rapprochement between this militant African American group and white Memphians.

It was a very carefully-worded speech, and it was largely successful in its intent. But it's widely misunderstood today, when it's separated from the specific circumstances under which it was made. You know the saying, "only Nixon could go to China"? Forrest's Pole-Bearers speech was very much like that.

Cincinnati Daily Gazette
, 6 June 1874, p. 9:

Cincinnati Daily Gazette 6 June 1874 p9.jpg
 
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I've read up on the Memphis race riots of 1866. It was extremely controversial at that time and it supposedly helped gain wider support for the radical republicans and the 14th amendment. Are you suggesting that if such an event were to happen again then the south would once again lose the power which it had gained by then? And Forest realised this and attempted to diffuse any situation which might result in the white population getting violent especially due to the pole-bearers. He needed to quiet down the black population so the whites would not turn to violence and as a result give the republicans more power. It does seem more consistent with his character.
 
I doubt he was much concerned about what the radical Republicans in Washington would do, but he (and other white Memphians) probably were looking for a way to stabilize things in post-Reconstruction Tennessee, with the Democrats back in charge. He was in business at that point, and large-scale civil unrest is really bad for all concerned.

In sum, I don't think Forrest's beliefs were changing so much as he was adapting to the vastly-changed landscape of post-Civil War, post-Reconstruction Memphis, and making the best (as he saw it) of the new situation.
 
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Forrest being the Grand Wizard of the Klan is true but how he gained the position is not exactly clear, some say he was appointed by former officers in his command as figue head to boost membership, others that he accepted because of Parson Brownlows administration actions against former CS soldiers and their relations.

He did do a 180 in his attitude , probably due his wife and her devotion to her faith that convinced him his soul was in danger. He became less forceful and more devote himself, I wouldn't say he saw the error of his way's but he took responsiblity for them in later life.
 
Forrest being the Grand Wizard of the Klan is true but how he gained the position is not exactly clear, some say he was appointed by former officers in his command as figue head to boost membership, others that he accepted because of Parson Brownlows administration actions against former CS soldiers and their relations.

He did do a 180 in his attitude , probably due his wife and her devotion to her faith that convinced him his soul was in danger. He became less forceful and more devote himself, I wouldn't say he saw the error of his way's but he took responsiblity for them in later life.

Best explanation I have read so far.

Thanks, Borderruffian, for posting it.

Sincerely,
Unionblue
 
While there was certainly some political expediency involved, I think there also was a good deal of sincerity involved as well. I think in that speech he went well beyond what political expediency would have required of him, to the extent that he upset a lot of white Southerners. Let's not forget either that the Pole-Bearers invited him to speak there, which they wouldn't have done if they didn't have reason to expect some sincerity out of him.

People do change. Much (but certainly not all) of the racism that existed in this country, existed because of slavery. The abolition of slavery opened the door to the reduction (and hopefully someday elimination) of racism. I think Forrest was a product of his times. As @Desert Kid said, he wasn't exactly the demon he's often made out to be in the first place, and his attitudes were able to evolve with the changing of the times.
 
I think both Andy and Borderruffian have it right - Forrest realized, after fighting it a good deal, that the old South he knew was gone forever and was never coming back. His Christian faith was also a strong factor. A whole load of things hit him like a sledge hammer between the eyes when he heard a sermon about the man who built his house on rock which held firm in the storm, and the man who built his house on sand and it was washed away in the storm - he told the preacher, "I am that man." Slavery was the sand he had built his house on, the war the storm that washed it away.
 
I doubt he was much concerned about what the radical Republicans in Washington would do, but he (and other white Memphians) probably were looking for a way to stabilize things in post-Reconstruction Tennessee, with the Democrats back in charge. He was in business at that point, and large-scale civil unrest is really bad for all concerned.

In sum, I don't think Forrest's beliefs were changing so much as he was adapting to the vastly-changed landscape of post-Civil War, post-Reconstruction Memphis, and making the best (as he saw it) of the new situation.
I agree.

If anything, Forrest was always one of the most pragmatic figures of the War.
 
I would find it hard to believe that his core beliefs changed very much.

You know, I've kind of chawed on that one for some time. Being of some years myself, it really is hard to change the kind of beliefs you've had all your life, especially ones you thought as sure as sunrise and sunset. I think he really did change many of them. The speech above - he really stuck his neck out. And, it's not often noted but it's very significant - he kissed Miss Lewis, the black lady who presented him with a bouquet. (Pillow's lemonade probably went down the wrong hatch right about then!) She was the daughter of one of the Pole Bearers who had asked him to speak.
 
You know, I've kind of chawed on that one for some time. Being of some years myself, it really is hard to change the kind of beliefs you've had all your life, especially ones you thought as sure as sunrise and sunset. I think he really did change many of them. The speech above - he really stuck his neck out. And, it's not often noted but it's very significant - he kissed Miss Lewis, the black lady who presented him with a bouquet. (Pillow's lemonade probably went down the wrong hatch right about then!) She was the daughter of one of the Pole Bearers who had asked him to speak.

Well, nobody ever claimed Forrest wasn't audacious.
 
You know, of all the things which got me to stop and give Forrest another look it was that. Audacious implies he kissed that lady in some daring statement, or was grandstanding. If I took it that way it never would have turned my head around. No one ever kisses anyone, ever, unless they are in someway sharing common humanity with them. I know racists now who have to shut up in public. They know darn well their views are considered ridiculous but change them, much less kiss someone of another race? They'd rather eat a live chicken. That act on the part of this man told me something fundamental had occurred. He could have gotten away with hugging this woman or accepting her flowers- anything. Even with this speech, nothing got to me like the kiss. Call it psychology or instinct or hokum or whatever- it is why I was able to re-read, re-focus and re-accept Forrest as this guy.
 
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