Nashville class ironclad model 1:369 scale.

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rebelatsea

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Location
Kent ,England.
Hi John, Nashville has always been described as not strong enough to be fully ironed. I've never seen paddle box supports depicted like this. I'm wondering if the fore and aft timbers might also function as hogging trusses? The projection from the bow may be an attempt to depict a spar torpedo deployed.
When CSS Nashville was surrendered at Nanna Hubba Bluff she was described as being hogged athwartships. That is ambiguous. does it mean the paddleboxes were out of true vertically, or does it mean, as is sometimes depicted that there was a horizontal truss between the boxes at the top? I tend towards the latter as the same device was commonly used on large seagoing paddle steamers, often used to support light bridgework. Bil R more or less confirms that as he says above.
I really do not know what to make of that very strange alleged portrayal of Nashville . To me it appears to be more than one vessel run together, one end being different to the other. The tent shaped framework could be exactly that.

The Nashville plans Bil referred to were apparently the constructors drawings, not Porter's original, and were stolen along with a lot of other stuff. This is very common in the riaroad world
 

rebelatsea

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Location
Kent ,England.
Sorry, I'm typing one handed - have a problem with my right hand at the moment. I was trying to say that such thefts are very common in the railroad world, where plans , models, and even parts have "gone missing" quite obviously stolen to order by unscrupulous collectors.

The drawing I used to depict CSS Nashville is based on Fremaux's on site painting, and the reason I accept it as accurate is that he depicts CSS Tennessee in the background in absolute accuracy. I very much regret that I do not have the current owner's permission, nor that of the museum it hangs in, to share the print donated to me, strictly for my research purposes only.
It is one of two, the other being an in situ painting of CSS North Carolina as completed, copied to me under the same conditions.
 

Ptarmigan

Private
Joined
Jul 21, 2013
"I Do believe her funnel was aft of the wheels"

Bill , does the photo you have seen show the funnel situated aft because the balance the pictorial evidence seems to indicate that the funnel was located forward of the paddle wheels as shown on most of the drawings. Although the drawing above shows the ship severely squashed up, I agree with John that there is something about the detailing on it that makes me think it was made by somebody who actually saw the ship and as Kevin said the pilot house does stretch across the case mate, although the width of the top is narrower than most of the drawings suggest.
 
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georgew

Sergeant
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Location
southern california
Great job. I have always been interested in the CSS Nashville as she was here in Demopolis for a time and was scuttled just south of here. Have been looking for photos but to no avail. All I could find were sketches of her.
View attachment 351673View attachment 351674
OK, I have to ask this. Because there are chaser ports in the casemate on the left and because it appears to indicate ironing aft of the wheels to about the point where what appears to be a paddle wheel support or hogging truss intersects the top of the casemate, followed by what appears to be a casemate running all the way to the stern (with a boat on davits) is it possible that we are looking a two different vessels overlapping? I don't see more than one funnel - if there is a second vessel behind it may not have been completed in terms of having boilers installed. Do we know where and in what time frame this illustration originated? There were uncompleted IC's at Mobile. It appears to me that the "aft" end is either not ironed or done is a different thickness of iron. Do we know if all the iron on Nashville was applied vertically?
 

Bil R

Private
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Location
Massachusetts
Hello Ptarmigan,

Thanks for the inquiry. Yes, in my view the photograph does suggest the funnel was aft of the wheels. Granted, this assumes her bow is upstream as was common mooring practice at the time. And, she is seen at an angle of about 37 degrees to the viewer. I too believe Mr. Fremaux did the painting above and did see the Nashville. But look carefully at the details. Notice that the date is September 1863, only a few months after her launch. She was not finished then and he depicts her wheel boxes unusually low. That tells me they weren't completed then and he was projecting how he thought they would appear. The same with the position of the funnel. I use the gunport locations (and spread), and number (2 fore, 1 aft), to determine true bow and stern on the nearly symmetrical vessel. This is regardless of the position and types of flagstaff or direction of smoke. I do know the gunports are verified in a contemporary CSN document. I cannot explain the unusual depiction of the aft portion of the Canney drawing above.

All the best,
Bil
 
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Ptarmigan

Private
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Jul 21, 2013
I think Kevin has captured the essence of the Nashville in his model, I would love to see one of Johns drawings showing the same layout with the funnel aft, the longitudinal hog bracing included and a much smaller pilot house located a short distance from the forward slope of the casemate. I have assumed that the pilothouse has been missed off drawings because of its small size, rather like those on pictures of the Richmond class pilothouses , small and square.
 

rebelatsea

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Location
Kent ,England.
OK, I have to ask this. Because there are chaser ports in the casemate on the left and because it appears to indicate ironing aft of the wheels to about the point where what appears to be a paddle wheel support or hogging truss intersects the top of the casemate, followed by what appears to be a casemate running all the way to the stern (with a boat on davits) is it possible that we are looking a two different vessels overlapping? I don't see more than one funnel - if there is a second vessel behind it may not have been completed in terms of having boilers installed. Do we know where and in what time frame this illustration originated? There were uncompleted IC's at Mobile. It appears to me that the "aft" end is either not ironed or done is a different thickness of iron. Do we know if all the iron on Nashville was applied vertically?
Georgew, she was only ironed on the front face of the casemate with 6". I assume , because it was how Tennessee was cased that the base layer was vertical, middle horizontal and outer layer vertical. the iron was taken off CSS Baltic, and there wasn't any more for her at the time.
Hello Ptarmigan,

Thanks for the inquiry. Yes, in my view the photograph does suggest the funnel was aft of the wheels. Granted, this assumes her bow is upstream as was common mooring practice at the time. And, she is seen at an angle of about 37 degrees to the viewer. I too believe Mr. Fremaux did the painting above and did see the Nashville. But look carefully at the details. Notice that the date is September 1863, only a few months after her launch. She was not finished then and he depicts her wheel boxes unusually low. That tells me they weren't completed then and he was projecting how he thought they would appear. The same with the position of the funnel. I use the gunport locations (and spread), and number (2 fore, 1 aft), to determine true bow and stern on the nearly symmetrical vessel. This is regardless of the position and types of flagstaff or direction of smoke. I do know the gunports are verified in a contemporary CSN document. I cannot explain the unusual depiction of the aft portion of the Canney drawing above.

All the best,
Bil
Hello Bil, Fremaux seems to have got his vertical perspective a little askew, but if you take a model of the ship and rotate it in the same way you achieve an almost identical aspect, I did ! I wondered if he was on a cliff or bluff, looking down on the two vessels when he made his sketches.
 
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rebelatsea

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Location
Kent ,England.
I think Kevin has captured the essence of the Nashville in his model, I would love to see one of Johns drawings showing the same layout with the funnel aft, the longitudinal hog bracing included and a much smaller pilot house located a short distance from the forward slope of the casemate. I have assumed that the pilothouse has been missed off drawings because of its small size, rather like those on pictures of the Richmond class pilothouses , small and square.
Kevin has done a fine job with his depiction. I have said so both here and on a faceboook group to which we both belong.

For my drawings and history of the design I refer you to my thread in the Naval Forum : The Confederate Navy's Sidewheel Ironclads.
 

Bil R

Private
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Location
Massachusetts
Hello John,

I'm glad Fremaux did it that way, from above. He gives us some detail of hatch location, transom stern, and casemate deck details. Regarding the Canney drawing I was thinking that could be a sun tarp stretched across the aft end but I don't know why they would run it down to the deck edge. One could also interpret that boom as a mooring boom to tie boats in order to board the vessel. Just some thoughts.

All the best,
Bil
 

kevin klein

Private
Joined
Feb 10, 2019
Kevin - Indeed , How did you do that I was specifically told not too copy or reproduce it ! BTW mine is a better copy
Kevin - Indeed , How did you do that I was specifically told not too copy or reproduce it ! BTW mine is a better copy
I found the image on a thread you posted four years ago. I reported to the Admin and it has now been removed. Sorry if I caused any concern.
 
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kevin klein

Private
Joined
Feb 10, 2019
Kevin has done a fine job with his depiction. I have said so both here and on a faceboook group to which we both belong.

For my drawings and history of the design I refer you to my thread in the Naval Forum : The Confederate Navy's Sidewheel Ironclads.
If the FB group you mentioned is the same one I am thinking of, the post looks like it was removed a day or two later for some reason.
???.
 

rebelatsea

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Location
Kent ,England.
I found the image on a thread you posted four years ago. I reported to the Admin and it has now been removed. Sorry if I caused any concern.
S***T, Did I really do that ? Well nothing has come of it - so far so good. I'm quite surprised because CWT is watched and quoted widely as an authoritave information source. Thank you for doing that anyway Kevin.
As I mentioned, that and the North Carolina painting were the only two things out of all the stuff I was given or shown I was ever asked not to reproduce.
 
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rebelatsea

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Location
Kent ,England.
Hello John,

I'm glad Fremaux did it that way, from above. He gives us some detail of hatch location, transom stern, and casemate deck details. Regarding the Canney drawing I was thinking that could be a sun tarp stretched across the aft end but I don't know why they would run it down to the deck edge. One could also interpret that boom as a mooring boom to tie boats in order to board the vessel. Just some thoughts.

All the best,
Bil
Hello Bil, I'd not thought of a boat boom ! The only reason I can think of for arranging a tarp that way would be if you wanted to conceal something .
 

kevin klein

Private
Joined
Feb 10, 2019
I haven't looked back. Is it the entire post or just my comment?
I was'nt very specific, the picture I found was in a thread of yours on this forum, Mar 7 2016, confederate sidewheel ironclads. The post removal I mentioned was of the model I made, from a FB ironclad group. Curious.
 
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