My two new muskets,US SPRINGFIELD models 1795 & 1816

TheTyler701

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Jun 21, 2018
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Hey guys, l understand that this ls a civil war forum though l wanted to know what you guys think of my 2 muskets. The dark black one is an 1816 Harper’s Ferry made in 1816. The light orange one ls a Springfield Armory 1795 made circa 1802-1803. (The date has been lost though the lock matches a type 1). On the 1816 lock, you can see “Harper’s Ferry 1816” and an Eagle. On the 1795 you can see “Springfield” and the cursive “US” underneath the Eagle that’s no longer their. Since these aren’t contract muskets and they obviously aren’t conversions, they have to be worth some $ right? Both have original ramrods, intact sling swivels, and the lock/frizzen works incredibly well on both. lm actually blown away at the quality. l do know that the 1795 has a factory shortened barrel from 44” to 42”. l don’t think that’s a big deal because apparently they did that to a lot of them right when they came out. The only damage ls a glued wood repair on the 1816 right under the frizzen spring. lt can be seen ln the lock photo. Anyways, what do you guys think they’re worth? lm going to sell one of them here soon. sorry for the crappy photos, all l had was my phone and the lighting kinda sucked. Thx.
 
Thanks for sharing your beautiful acquisitions! I have no Idea what they are worth. You might check some on-line sales offerings or auctions to get an idea. Or you might just want to keep them....
 
The 1795 you have is what collectors refer to as a late production "type 1". The style of arched Springfield on your musket's lock was used in 1802 and 1803. The year should be marked on the buttplate tang.

Your 1816 is actually another 1795 type musket. It is a late production musket, and depending on which reference you derive your typology from it could be considered a type 3, 4, or 5. Whichever variant you call it it is a 1795. Harpers Ferry did not start producing the Model 1816 until 1818. The most noticeable difference between a 1795 and an 1816 is the iron pan on a 1795 vs the brass pan of an 1816.

Thanks for sharing,
Garrett
 
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The 1795 you have is what collectors refer to as a late production "type 1". The style of arched Springfield on your musket's lock was used in 1802 and 1803. The year should be marked on the buttplate tang.

Your 1816 is actually another 1795 type musket. It is a late production musket, and depending on which reference you derive your typology from it could be considered a type 3, 4, or 5. Whichever variant you call it it is a 1795. Harpers Ferry did not start producing the Model 1816 until 1818. The most noticeable difference between a 1795 and an 1816 is the iron pan on a 1795 vs the brass pan of an 1816.

Thanks for sharing,
Garrett
Right, but aren’t they still referred to as “model 1816”? The biggest visual difference ls that the 1795 one has barrel springs behind the band and he newer one has them forward of the band.

Also, how could the musket say “Harper’s ferry” and also say “1816”? l will post a better photo of the lock. Because according to you, my musket wasn’t make ln 1816 then
 
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Right, but aren’t they still referred to as “model 1816”? The biggest visual difference ls that the 1795 one has barrel springs behind the band and he newer one has them forward of the band.

Also, how could the musket say “Harper’s ferry” and also say “1816”? l will post a better photo of the lock. Because according to you, my musket wasn’t make ln 1816 then

Your musket was indeed made in 1816, but it is not a Model 1816. The dates on US arms are dates of manufacture rather than the model designation.
As production of the 1795 progressed various improvements were made to the design. Harpers Ferry reduced barrel lengths to nominally 42 inches from nominally 44 inches in 1815, and in 1816 conventional forward facing barrel bands were introduced. In 1817 or 1818 pinned sling swivels began to be utilized.
Still, until 1819 the muskets produced at Harpers Ferry still featured flat faced beveled edge locks with flat faced beveled edged cocks, and integral round bottomed iron pans.
The combs on muskets produced in this era are also higher than those found on M1816 muskets, although their heights did diminish as production of the Model 1816 drew nearer.

Model 1816 production didn't start at Harpers Ferry until the early Spring of 1819. Likely, a thousand or so 1795 muskets were also completed that year before the supply of old parts were finally used up. I can't recall having ever seen an 1819 dated Harpers Ferry 1795, so I would be willing to wager that the locks on those muskets had been completed the previous year and therefore bare 1818 dates.

Model 1816 muskets have locks with convex tail sections as well as convex faced hammers. The tails of the locks feature a gentle point rather than a "teat" found on earlier guns. The pans are also brass.


Pre-1816 muskets can be a real bear to get a good grasp on due to the lack of pattern guns used to tool up for production. If you wanted to get really technical about it Model 1795 muskets aren't really "Model" anythings as there were no model guns made for the Arsenals to copy for their production runs. But I'll digress, as that is a whole other can of worms.
 
Your musket was indeed made in 1816, but it is not a Model 1816. The dates on US arms are dates of manufacture rather than the model designation.
As production of the 1795 progressed various improvements were made to the design. Harpers Ferry reduced barrel lengths to nominally 42 inches from nominally 44 inches in 1815, and in 1816 conventional forward facing barrel bands were introduced. In 1817 or 1818 pinned sling swivels began to be utilized.
Still, until 1819 the muskets produced at Harpers Ferry still featured flat faced beveled edge locks with flat faced beveled edged cocks, and integral round bottomed iron pans.
The combs on muskets produced in this era are also higher than those found on M1816 muskets, although their heights did diminish as production of the Model 1816 drew nearer.

Model 1816 production didn't start at Harpers Ferry until the early Spring of 1819. Likely, a thousand or so 1795 muskets were also completed that year before the supply of old parts were finally used up. I can't recall having ever seen an 1819 dated Harpers Ferry 1795, so I would be willing to wager that the locks on those muskets had been completed the previous year and therefore bare 1818 dates.

Model 1816 muskets have locks with convex tail sections as well as convex faced hammers. The tails of the locks feature a gentle point rather than a "teat" found on earlier guns. The pans are also brass.


Pre-1816 muskets can be a real bear to get a good grasp on due to the lack of pattern guns used to tool up for production. If you wanted to get really technical about it Model 1795 muskets aren't really "Model" anythings as there were no model guns made for the Arsenals to copy for their production runs. But I'll digress, as that is a whole other can of worms.
Thanks for all that information, really learned a lot. l thought lt was as simple as 1795’s had springs behind the barrel bands and 1816’s had them forward of the band. l guess being made ln 1816 made lt a weird transitional type musket maybe? Or maybe all type 5 1795’s look like that.
 
Welcome From THE Heart Of Dixie. Very Nice muskets thanks for sharing.
 
The tang is the small part on the top of the stock with a screw down through it. Not the part which goes on your shoulder.
the date should be lightly engraved there
 
Now that you know a bit more about the history of these weapons, are you reconsidering keeping them? Seems the more I learn about mine, the more I like them and form an attachment to them, even the ones I wish I could've returned initially after purchasing. Perhaps the great info you get on this forum might make you want to reconsider keeping these great pieces of history for yourself!
 
Yours are especially interesting because they haven't been converted and appear to be in "original flint!" (As opposed to being converted to percussion and then re-converted back to flint by some later collector or dealer.) And as far as them not being Civil War guns, at the beginning of the war in 1861 there were still plenty of these old flintlocks in both Northern and Southern State armories and you can bet they were issued until more "modern" replacements became available. Several early battles like Fishing Creek/Logan's Crossroads/Mill Springs, Kentucky (all names for the same battle) and Fort Donelson, Tennessee saw Confederates armed with these. Welcome to the forum!
 
Thanks for all that information, really learned a lot. l thought lt was as simple as 1795’s had springs behind the barrel bands and 1816’s had them forward of the band. l guess being made ln 1816 made lt a weird transitional type musket maybe? Or maybe all type 5 1795’s look like that.
Here's what the stock profile of a M.1816/22 should look like; note the lack of a comb on the butt. This one's a cut-down and converted-to-percussion example, but what's seen here is what they should look like!

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