Muslim soldiers in the Civil War.

[archieclement]

I never claimed that more then a relative handful of ACW soldiers were practicing Moslems. My main point was that until relatively recently there was no major antagonism between Americans and Moslems.
Leftyhunter

Oh I agree we are talking black confederate like numbers here........though i would consider both slavery and organised legal discrimination as forms of "antagonism" even if you dont.....

 

[leftyhunter]

At some point many Americans were discriminated prior to the Civil War. Are we using if one or one's ancestors were discriminated against in the United States, as a measure of if they should or should not be honored for their Civil War service? If so the majority of Civil War soldiers should not be honored.

Per a pamphlet on Moslems in America published by the Saudi Arabian Government the first major influx of Moslem immigrants to the US was circa 1870 from Albania. We have to keep in mind that slaves at least had to pretend to be Christian. We can't know how many actual practicing Moslems there were during most if the 19th Century among the slaves.
Leftyhunter

 

[major bill]

I do not see much objection to the view that at least some Muslims served as soldiers during the Civil War. So if Muslims were soldiers during the Civil War, should it follow that at reenactments it would be reasonable that some reenactors portray Muslims?

 

[Cdoug96]

Moses Osman, who is cited as the highest ranking officer with a Muslim name in the Union army was confirmed in the German Lutheran Church on 3/26/1843, in Harrisburg Pa. His father's name was Robert and his mother was Catherine. (see ancestry.com for this information).

As for W. B. Osman, listed as being the first person with an Islamic name buried in a National Cemetery, his full name was William Boman Osmun. He was in G, 49th Pa. His widow, Matilda, got a pension. He was born in Pennsylvania. His family tree is available on Ancestry.com and traces his family's roots back to England and Germany. There is not a hint of Islamic involvement anywhere.

This is a really good example of why you can't judge someone's religion based on a name, and why good research needs to be done before making such a claim. Additional research quickly turns up several siblings, one of whom, William, has many papers being kept by Illinois. They reveal Moses' parents and other things like the fact that William and Moses fought in the Mexican-American War. William was also a close friend of Senator Stephan Douglas. Even more hilariously, the name Osman, while it is a Muslim surname in Turkey, from the founder of the Ottoman Empire who was named Osman, actually has another origin in old English in the 7th century, a combination of the Old English words "oss" and "maer." Another variant of this name you may have seen is the surname Hosmer.

 

[major bill]

This might be a subject that could be researched in more depth.

 

[archieclement]

I do not see much objection to the view that at least some Muslims served as soldiers during the Civil War. So if Muslims were soldiers during the Civil War, should it follow that at reenactments it would be reasonable that some reenactors portray Muslims?

Kinda curious how do you think it would be protrayed? They would be wearing the same uniform.....if they attended a church service it would be Christian. I doubt if they did prayers they would have made a big public production out of it to draw attention to themselves....as it's noted most slaves converted rather then practice in secret.

I guess at dinner he could be the one guy not eating if its a salt pork ration.

This is still a period where if one was too far from societal norm.....one might be tar and feathered or lynched......

 

[major bill]

They could pray 5 times a day in the normal Islamic way. If they did not make a big deal of it, this would seem appropriate.

 

[archieclement]

If they didn't make a big deal of it, it would be done privately so wouldn't be protrayed in a camp reenactment..

 

[major bill]

How are Jewish soldiers portrayed at reenactments? I would guess they do not eat pork or other forbidden foods. If reenactment units exclude all Jews and Muslims they have no right to complain if they see falling numbers of reenactors in some parts of the nation.

 

[archieclement]

How are Jewish soldiers portrayed at reenactments? I would guess they do not eat pork or other forbidden foods. If reenactment units exclude all Jews and Muslims they have no right to complain if they see falling numbers of reenactors in some parts of the nation.

The few reenactments I've too haven't seen anyone trying to advertise a Jewish faith, I see generally a Christian depiction as we were overwhelming Christian, but seldom see reenactors trying to advertise any specific denomination in protrayels either.

 

[GwilymT]

Because modern politics are supposed to be forbidden here and yet we see it over and over with threads like this, injecting modern issues into the guise of Civil War study.

I'm glad you will be tolerant of the inevitable "preferred pronouns" thread. Hint: There weren't any in the 1860s, when people spoke English and left it that way.

How is discussion of Muslim Americans’ participation in the Civil War modern politics? Does it make you uncomfortable? Apparently pronouns do.

Funny, there is much documentation of women posing as and fighting as men on both sides. What pronouns do you think they would have preferred to be called in the ranks? Apparently there were indeed preferred pronouns in the 1860s.

 

[archieclement]

How is discussion of Muslim Americans’ participation in the Civil War modern politics? Does it make you uncomfortable? Apparently pronouns do.

Funny, there is much documentation of women posing as and fighting as men on both sides. What pronouns do you think they would have preferred to be called in the ranks? Apparently there were indeed preferred pronouns in the 1860s.

I would think it borders on it, because of the societal differences between then and now.

Today we openly celebrate our differences, this desire to see this or that in presentations would be reflective of today's politics/views

Yet back then people didn't try to draw attention for being different racially, religious, or sexual orientation as could have in fact been dangerous. So it's probally not very accurate to protray such conduct having been done openly in camp presentations.

Also realisticly there should be more blacks in confederate camp presentations, but that there is not I would assume is because of today's society, not there's.

Women posing as men is a classic example, as they weren't running around camp going look at me I'm a woman........but avoiding any attention. If some of the women weren't ever discovered until being wounded.....you would protray nothing about them being a woman.......

 

[Rhea Cole]

The history of muslims who emigrated to the U.S. is convoluted. The earliest documented Muslim was Estevancio, a North African captive who became a famous Spanish explorer. It is estimated that 1.2 million slaves transported to America were muslims. Before the Civil War the Naturalization Act of 1790 stipulated that only white men of good character could become naturalized citizens. The wave of bigotry called nativism in the 1830's also discouraged emigration by dark skinned people from regions where Muslims were living. It wasn't until the 1870's when emigrants from Syria, Jordan, Palestine & Lebanon were classified as "Turks" that an appreciable number of people of the Muslim faith emigrated. With the disintegration of the Ottoman Empire, the frist full scale emigration of Muslims began in 1920. It was the congregation in Cedar Rapids, Iowa in 1934 that opened what is considered the Mother Mosque of the U.S. Muslim community. The oldest mosque still standing in the U.S. is in North Dakota, near the Canadian border.

This chronology makes clear that like the lone pigtailed Chinese soldier in the Army of the Potomac, there would have been a few Civil War soldiers of the Muslim faith, but they would have been few & far between.