Muslim soldiers in the Civil War.

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thomas aagaard

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However the Western World/Muslim conflict had been going on for some time...….remember those crusade things?...…...there were several
And by the time the US became a sovereign state it was old history.
Depending on definition the last one was in the 13th or 15th century.

The conflict between the Ottomans and European great powers was not religions but a typical great power struggle...
(as seen by the fact that France in some periods was allied with the Ottomans)
Where religion was used as motivation and justification... but was not in any way the cause.
 

leftyhunter

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However the Western World/Muslim conflict had been going on for some time...….remember those crusade things?...…...there were several

History detectives claim 10-15% of slaves imported from Africa were Muslim, but adds the caveat that most converted to Christianity as any Muslim worship had to be done in secret

My point was simply that the conflict between certain Moslem factions of Muslims and the US did not occur until well after one hundred years post ACW.
Leftyhunter
 

leftyhunter

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And by the time the US became a sovereign state it was old history.
Depending on definition the last one was in the 13th or 15th century.

The conflict between the Ottomans and European great powers was not religions but a typical great power struggle...
(as seen by the fact that France in some periods was allied with the Ottomans)
Where religion was used as motivation and justification... but was not in any way the cause.
Also the Ottoman Empire was aligned with Germany , Italy ( early stages) and the Austrian Hungarian Empire during WW1.
All three nations being Christian majority.
Leftyhunter
 
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archieclement

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My point was simply that the conflict between certain Moslem factions of Muslims and the US did not occur until well after one hundred years post ACW.
Leftyhunter
My point was simply the conflict between east-west, Christianity and Islam was well established, The United States as both a Western and Christian nation would have largely shared in the disdain and distrust of them, whether at war or not.....Heck we didn't even like the Irish, much less an entirely different culture:bounce:
 

thomas aagaard

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My point was simply the conflict between east-west, Christianity and Islam was well established, The United States as both a Western and Christian nation would have largely shared in the disdain and distrust of them, whether at war or not.....Heck we didn't even like the Irish, much less an entirely different culture:bounce:
Legally The US is not a Christian state... at least according to the treaty of Tripoli... and your your Constitution (unlike the danish or British) ban any state-religion...

But culturally it was pretty much protestant...
So you could say that the US as a state is not christian... but as a nation it was... (and not getting into a debate about the situation today)
 

archieclement

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Legally The US is not a Christian state... at least according to the treaty of Tripoli... and your your Constitution (unlike the danish or British) ban any state-religion...

But culturally it was pretty much protestant...
So you could say that the US as a state is not christian... but as a nation it was... (and not getting into a debate about the situation today)
Umm I did say as a nation.....we are one nation under God.... in God we trust......and in the US legal system the bible is commonly used to swear individuals or presidents in...…. Personally at the time I would think the founders meant they didn't favor a particular Christian denomination but seems rather obvious they favored Christianity. I wont debate today either but as of 2016 3 major polls or studies had it still well over 70%

Besides legally and reality of the majority aren't always the same thing, as laws are enforced.....or not enforced.....by the local majorities

Its like of course lynching is illegal...but not alot to do when its always "persons unknown"
 
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major bill

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Jews, Muslim, and other religions were present in the United States at the time the nation formed. So although the majority of Americans were Christian, the nation was founded on religious freedom. This is why there were Jewish and Muslim soldier during the Civil War as well as our other wars.

Although the holy month of Ramadam has pasted this year, Ramadam is a great time to honor Muslim Civil War soldiers as well as all US soldiers of the Islamic faith who served the nation during any war.
 

archieclement

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Jews, Muslim, and other religions were present in the United States at the time the nation formed. So although the majority of Americans were Christian, the nation was founded on religious freedom. This is why there were Jewish and Muslim soldier during the Civil War as well as our other wars.

Although the holy month of Ramadam has pasted this year, Ramadam is a great time to honor Muslim Civil War soldiers as well as all US soldiers of the Islamic faith who served the nation during any war.
there were only about 12 Jews living in North America in the 17th century. These faced a number of restrictions, including being banned from practicing law, medicine, art, and other professions. As late as 1790, one year before adoption of the Bill of Rights, several states had religious tests for holding public office, and Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, and South Carolina still maintained established churches. Within a few years of the ratification of the Constitution, Delaware, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, and Georgia eliminated barriers that prevented Jews from voting, but these barriers did not fall for many decades in Rhode Island (1842), North Carolina (1868), and New Hampshire (1877) .......then of course Grant famously makes antii-Semitism an issue again during the CW by referring to them with "The Israelites especially should be kept out ... they are such an intolerable nuisance."

Until 1877 the New Hampshire Constitution required members of the State legislature to be of the Protestant religion. Until 1968 the Constitution allowed for state funding of Protestant classrooms but not Catholic classrooms.
 
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major bill

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Many of these post have nothing to do with honoring Muslims who served in the Civil War. The Muslim population in America was not huge at the time of the Civil War nor was the Jewish population all that big, still both served in Civil War armies and probably the US Navy as well.
 
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archieclement

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Many of these post have nothing to do with honoring Muslims who served in the Civil War. The Muslim population in America was not huge at the time of the Civil War nor was the Jewish population all that big, still both served in Civil War armies and probably the US Navy as well.
No it does go to this claim they enjoyed religious freedom you made however...…..In some states they officially didn't, and non official discrimination went on in many others.....Its a shame we tend to focus on only discrimination of one group, and so many seem unaware of the extent it went on to other races, ethnicities and religions.......
 
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leftyhunter

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My point was simply the conflict between east-west, Christianity and Islam was well established, The United States as both a Western and Christian nation would have largely shared in the disdain and distrust of them, whether at war or not.....Heck we didn't even like the Irish, much less an entirely different culture:bounce:
There was no antagonism at all between Moslem nations and people's against the United States until well into the 20th Century less then fifty years ago.
Leftyhunter
 
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archieclement

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There was no antagonism at all between Moslem nations and people's against the United States until well into the 20th Century less then fifty years ago.
Leftyhunter
that's not true at all or their wouldn't have been discrimination, BTW the example of NH not allowing anyone but Protestants to serve in legislature would have precluded Muslims as well as Jews........
 

Shadow9216

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that's not true at all or their wouldn't have been discrimination, BTW the example of NH not allowing anyone but Protestants to serve in legislature would have precluded Muslims as well as Jews........
How does the one follow the other? There wasn't a Jewish state, but there was certainly discrimination against Jews. Ditto against the Irish- can't remember any war/conflict between the US and Ireland, but there was definitely discrimination.

Just to establish my bona fides here, I was an Arabic linguist for almost 20 years, lived in the Middle East, and have written several studies on US-Arab/Islamic relations and conflicts. Leftyhunter's comment is essentially correct.

And back to @major bill and his comments regarding Ramadan, I have many happy memories of sharing the evening meal with my Muslim hosts, oftentimes complete strangers who'd invited me into their homes off the street, plying me with food and treating me like an honored guest, despite being totally unknown. Ramadan mubarak, wa eid al-fitr sa'id aleykum!
 

archieclement

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How does the one follow the other? There wasn't a Jewish state, but there was certainly discrimination against Jews. Ditto against the Irish- can't remember any war/conflict between the US and Ireland, but there was definitely discrimination.

Just to establish my bona fides here, I was an Arabic linguist for almost 20 years, lived in the Middle East, and have written several studies on US-Arab/Islamic relations and conflicts. Leftyhunter's comment is essentially correct.

And back to @major bill and his comments regarding Ramadan, I have many happy memories of sharing the evening meal with my Muslim hosts, oftentimes complete strangers who'd invited me into their homes off the street, plying me with food and treating me like an honored guest, despite being totally unknown. Ramadan mubarak, wa eid al-fitr sa'id aleykum!
Because if NH only allowed Protestants to serve in legislature, it would prohibit any non Protestant including Muslims, not seeing where that should be hard to follow at all.... thats discrimination. In the an earlier pc provided it mentioned most early Muslims were African slaves, but most converted to Christianity because to practice Islam had to be done in secret, again an example of discrimination

I agree and had previously pointed out a war isnt necessary for discrimination. The only thing that prevented it being widespread was that Muslims weren't widespread, post war as more immigrated the discrimination increased more also. o

BTW its not just the Irish, anti immigration discrimination has extended to most every ethnicity who has came here. St Louis had Dutchtown, Dogpatch, Dago HIll segregated neighborhood in effect for Germans, Irish and Italians
 
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major bill

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I was in the Saudi desert during Ramadan, the Saudi soldiers were beyond kind. I had tea and cookies sitting in the featureless desert. "No thank you, 6 sugar cubes in a small cup of tea is enough." To this day I do not find half cooked iguana tasty, but the company was excellent. And no, half cooked iguana does not taste like chicken.
 

Shadow9216

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leftyhunter said:
There was no antagonism at all between Moslem nations and people's against the United States until well into the 20th Century less then fifty years ago.
Leftyhunter
that's not true at all or their wouldn't have been discrimination, BTW the example of NH not allowing anyone but Protestants to serve in legislature would have precluded Muslims as well as Jews........

Because if NH only allowed Protestants to serve in legislature, it would prohibit any non Protestant including Muslims, not seeing where that should be hard to follow at all.... thats discrimination. In the an earlier pc provided it mentioned most early Muslims were African slaves, but most converted to Christianity because to practice Islam had to be done in secret, again an example of discrimination

I agree and had previously pointed out a war isnt necessary for discrimination.
Lefty stated there was no antagonism between Muslims and the US until the 20th century- your lead sentece is 'that's not true at all or there wouldn't have been discrimination.' That's what I find hard to follow. The one follows the other, unless that's somehow not what you meant.
 

archieclement

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that's not true at all or their wouldn't have been discrimination, BTW the example of NH not allowing anyone but Protestants to serve in legislature would have precluded Muslims as well as Jews........


Lefty stated there was no antagonism between Muslims and the US until the 20th century- your lead sentece is 'that's not true at all or there wouldn't have been discrimination.' That's what I find hard to follow. The one follows the other, unless that's somehow not what you meant.

I would think discrimination is antagonism, since discrimination existed well before the 20th century, it would seem a rather false statement to me.

If you find discrimination not antagonism, and somehow fine, I'll agree to disagree.

But we know the practice was discouraged and discriminated against in the earliest Muslims the slaves, and continued officially until 1877 in NH............not exactly the 20th century at all
 
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Shadow9216

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Okay, go with that.

Meanwhile, getting back to the topic of the thread:
In addtion to the names already mentioned, there was Private Mohammad Khan, born in Afghanistan, raised in Persia, who enlisted with Company E, 43rd NY (https://narations.blogs.archives.gov/2017/06/23/private-mohammed-kahn-civil-war-soldier/).

Civil War Soldiers and Sailors System (CWSS) reveals several names associated with Islam, including two Mahomets, two Hasans, three Rahmans, three Alis, 17 Saids, and 58 Hassans (https://gettysburgcompiler.org/2017/03/01/profiles-in-patriotism-muslims-and-the-civil-war/).
 

major bill

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Can one assume that at least a couple of the US sailors form India and some other areas where Muslims make up a large percent of the population were Muslims? I seems difficult to believe every single US sailor from India was a Christian, some may well have been Hindus or Muslims. I kind of like the concept that at least one sailor was a follower of Zoroastrianism.
 
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