Restricted Debate More silly guys who worried that slavery would tear the country apart

[BigTex]

Thanks for your response.
Please explain.

The Article you cite concerns the formation and function of that part of the government called the Congress. As it outlines and establishes it's delegated powers, it also prohibits the States from exercising those powers within the compact. Once outside the compact (no longer a signatory to the compact by exercising it's natural right to secede) a Sovereign State may take up its right of association of it's choosing. When the States dissolved their federal government of the AOC, ' in congress assembled', they were Sovereign. It was a perpetual union which they abolished by seceding from the Confederation. "We the people" of these individual Sovereign States established a compact outside the legal AOC government (a revolution by definition), and a new government which had not existed prior. The compact created the government, not the States. The compact (Constitution ) is not the government. The States existed before the compact and delegated such sovereignty as was necessary (the preamble).

 

[BigTex]

You are correct. Today they are not sovereign as they are under the exact same constitution enforce in 1860. The exact same constitution that the forces of the United States fought to uphold from 1861-1865, and the exact same constitution you and I live under now.

If you were correct (and you are not) then there are no States, only subjects. And there exists only a national not federal government. Seeking to free the slaves, the North has enslaved us all. See Amendment XVI.

 

[GwilymT]

If you were correct (and you are not) then there are no States, only subjects. And there exists only a national not federal government. Seeking to free the slaves, the North has enslaved us all. See Amendment XVI.

The states are subject to the people of the United States who enacted the constitution. “We the people of the United States,” not “we the citizens of the various states” or “We the several states”... the constitution is the product of the whole people of the United States, not of subdivisions thereof.

 

[CSA Today]

You betcha. No way are Nor-easters holier than any anybody else. Them with their smug little fish faces.

Ah, yes, the "pasty face mechanics and codfish catchers."

 

[CSA Today]

Thanks for your response.
I am flattered that you find my mundane comments and the 'likes' I award so interesting.
Although I might quibble with some of his choice of words, @matthew mckeon stated his case well. It was a clear and- I believe largely accurate- reference to those rebels of another generation, not of anyone still living.
Since you are intent on tracking my 'likes', a word on 'likes' is in order. You will notice that I often 'like' posts that I disagree with, including yours, when they are well stated and provide food for thought. Perhaps the easiest way to get a like from me is to provide sourced information: that shows the poster put some effort into the post. I don't require that every post has to be in lock-step with my views, but for me to like it, it has to contribute to the discussion.

Thanks for your response.
I am flattered that you find my mundane comments and the 'likes' I award so interesting.
Although I might quibble with some of his choice of words, @matthew mckeon stated his case well. It was a clear and- I believe largely accurate- reference to those rebels of another generation, not of anyone still living.
Since you are intent on tracking my 'likes', a word on 'likes' is in order. You will notice that I often 'like' posts that I disagree with, including yours, when they are well stated and provide food for thought. Perhaps the easiest way to get a like from me is to provide sourced information: that shows the poster put some effort into the post. I don't require that every post has to be in lock-step with my views, but for me to like it, it has to contribute to the discussion.

I wouldn't say I'm flattered, your biases are your business, if you are OK with “They failed as statesmen, as generals, as human beings.” it's OK with me (post 235). I could care less about your mundanity and quibbling it's pretty much par for the course.

 

[Andersonh1]

As to tariffs, we’ve had several posts showing secessionists themselves saying that tariffs were not the issue. Do you have any examples of actual secessionists saying that they were seceding due to tariffs?

I've posted a number in recent weeks, and people ignore or deny them.

 

[Andersonh1]

The formation of the confederacy was decidedly not peaceable. It also did not include participation of ALL of the states, as the constitutional convention did... not a good analogy.

The Constitutional Convention did NOT involve all the states. Rhode Island never participated.

 

[GwilymT]

The Constitutional Convention did NOT involve all the states. Rhode Island never participated.

And yet RI ratified.

 

[GwilymT]

I've posted a number in recent weeks, and people ignore or deny them.

I must have missed them.

 

[CSA Today]

Yes, and I have been known to knock one to the ground with my club when they try eye contact. The nobility of the bird is lost when slipping on their dropping.

I didn't get that far with one, he was just looking for a handout.

 

[Andersonh1]

And yet RI ratified.

They were not involved in the creation of the Constitution, and only joined an already existing system that had supplanted the government they agreed to, and they did so only when threatened with economic and diplomatic penalties if they did not. "Ratification due to bullying by the Union" is an accurate description of what happened.

 

[Scooter_B]

What was great about it? That it was initiated to defend the enslavement of other human beings? That it caused terrible death and destruction and stunted the growth of an entire region for a hundred years?
That certainly is a lot to take pride in.

All wars cause terrible death and destruction. The US Civil War was nothing compared to the revolutions in China, Russia, France, Germany, and Italy where millions died. The enslavement of other human beings? Southern servents powered the development of the United States. The sweat and blood of their labor made the US into a nation instead of a few insignificant British Colonies on the Atlantic coast perhaps a part of the magnificent nation of Canada. .

 

[Scooter_B]

I must have missed them.

Real History supporting the Southern Tradition is often missed by them that feel justified by the Treasury of Virtue indulgence.

 

[Scooter_B]

They were not involved in the creation of the Constitution, and only joined an already existing system that had supplanted the government they agreed to, and they did so only when threatened with economic and diplomatic penalties if they did not. "Ratification due to bullying by the Union" is an accurate description of what happened.

Exactly. Right up there with reunification by the sword.

 

[Scooter_B]

I wouldn't say I'm flattered, your biases are your business, if you are OK with “They failed as statesmen, as generals, as human beings.” it's OK with me (post 235). I could care less about your mundanity and quibbling it's pretty much par for the course.

Yep Some seems to want to put lipstick on their pig while calling everyone else's pig bacon.

 

[Scooter_B]

Ah, yes, the "pasty face mechanics and codfish catchers."

Did you leave out Mudsills?

 

[Scooter_B]

The Article you cite concerns the formation and function of that part of the government called the Congress. As it outlines and establishes it's delegated powers, it also prohibits the States from exercising those powers within the compact. Once outside the compact (no longer a signatory to the compact by exercising it's natural right to secede) a Sovereign State may take up its right of association of it's choosing. When the States dissolved their federal government of the AOC, ' in congress assembled', they were Sovereign. It was a perpetual union which they abolished by seceding from the Confederation. "We the people" of these individual Sovereign States established a compact outside the legal AOC government (a revolution by definition), and a new government which had not existed prior. The compact created the government, not the States. The compact (Constitution ) is not the government. The States existed before the compact and delegated such sovereignty as was necessary (the preamble).

Exactly.

 

[CSA Today]

Yep Some seems to want to put lipstick on their pig while calling everyone else's pig bacon.

Or worse.

 

[Scooter_B]

"More silly guys....."
Describes this thread very very good.

 

[CSA Today]

Did you leave out Mudsills?

Good gracious, you're right I did I need to concentrate.