More Rosencrans / Garfield controversy by Dave Powell

I'm always happy to read, learn and when warranted comment on anything about Rosecrans and the battles and campaigns he was part of.
The Garfield-Rosecrans relationship is a complicated and muddled one. As I say in my book Garfield was for the most part loyal to Rosecrans. His speech on the floor of the House of Representatives in February 1864 is a strong defense of his onetime chief. Page 776 f https://books.google.com/books?id=F...there won thebattles iuka and corinth&f=false
However as a biographer of Garfield wrote : "Garfield's friendship for Rosecrans was stained by a deception that no kind acts or words could wash away." I still tend to believe Garfield was more loyal to Rosecrans than not after Chickamauga. However letters written by Emerson Opdycke, who is one of the few soldiers to make documented criticisms of Rosecrans after Chickamauga, seem to show his opinion was impacted by Garfield. https://books.google.com/books?id=a3CT_V65hG8C&pg=PR11&dq=emerson+opdycke+letters&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjm5a_JmpPMAhWIOj4KHRtNC3oQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=emerson opdycke letters&f=false
The letters on pages 99, 115-117 indicate that Opdycke was influenced by what Garfield (and Charles Dana) told him about Rosecrans during the battle of Chickamauaga. Opdycke is at first positive about the results of the campaign and Rosecrans (p 101) but then his attitude towards Rosecrans changed presumably after conversations with Garfield and Dana (p 117.) Dana's role in justifying the removal of Rosecrans was much more important than Garfield's. In fact Garfield had no role in the actual removal which was really Grant's decision. Garfield did write in 1867 that the political leaders "were not unwilling to see evil befall [Rosecrans.]" Garfield was killed before Dana's post Chickamuaga correspondence to Washington was published. Had he been alive he may have reconciled with Rosecrans after the letters of the real culprit were published.

I don't see how anything concerning the man whose achievements the Republican NY Times said (after his removal) were second only to Grant's and whose name would always play a prominent role in the history of the war can ever be "over" as long as the war is discussed. Why we've hardly scratched the surface. :smile:
 
Your response is interesting but you avoided Dave Powell's post dealing with Col.Anson Stager.

I really don't know how important Stager is. In Lamer's book he gets one sentence. Many of the anti Garfield stories originated with Dana, who of course was the person most responsible for painting a negative picture of Rosecrans after Chickamauga. Until Dana's 1863 correspondence started coming out around 1882 no one really knew that. There were many rumors about Garfield's alleged disloyalty that were impossible to verify.
What is the point that you say I avoided? I also posted something on the Emerging CW site.
 
I really don't know how important Stager is. In Lamer's book he gets one sentence. Many of the anti Garfield stories originated with Dana, who of course was the person most responsible for painting a negative picture of Rosecrans after Chickamauga. Until Dana's 1863 correspondence started coming out around 1882 no one really knew that. There were many rumors about Garfield's alleged disloyalty that were impossible to verify.
What is the point that you say I avoided? I also posted something on the Emerging CW site.
Will go now and check out ECW.
 
Just when we thought it was over author historian Dave Powell posted an essay on his favorite subject CHICKAMAUGA.This was posted on the blog "Emerging Civilwar" which is one that I follow.I do hope that Mr.Joseph A.Rose and David Moore read this as I would like to hear how they respond to this controversy.

I love the back room politics of the CW. I just finished a great series of articles also found on the Emerging Civil War website regarding George Gordon Meade, The Retreat from Gettysburg and the Joint Committee on the Conduct of the War. Fabricated letters, false accusations, etc: I love it all!

I am no more informed after this current Powell article, than I was before it, because I feel that more source needs to be uncovered. I DO, however, really like the concept that with easier access to information via internet, there are still many articles and books to be written. Write on!

William Lamers’s outstanding biography of William S. Rosecrans was first published in 1961. Lamers mined the voluminous Rosecrans Papers extensively, which is where he found the Darr letter. He plumbed a wealth of other sources as well; the Chicago Tribune among them. What he lacked, of course, were the tools of a more modern age – the combination of search engines and digitized, online newspaper databanks that place millions of articles at our fingertips.

With these tools and the right search parameters, researchers can now reduce the endless hours once required to comb newspaper (and other) archives to mere minutes. That ability leads to some fascinating discoveries. https://emergingcivilwar.com/2016/04/16/the-man-in-the-corner/
 
I love the back room politics of the CW. I just finished a great series of articles also found on the Emerging Civil War website regarding George Gordon Meade, The Retreat from Gettysburg and the Joint Committee on the Conduct of the War. Fabricated letters, false accusations, etc: I love it all!

I am no more informed after this current Powell article, than I was before it, because I feel that more source needs to be uncovered. I DO, however, really like the concept that with easier access to information via internet, there are still many articles and books to be written. Write on!

William Lamers’s outstanding biography of William S. Rosecrans was first published in 1961. Lamers mined the voluminous Rosecrans Papers extensively, which is where he found the Darr letter. He plumbed a wealth of other sources as well; the Chicago Tribune among them. What he lacked, of course, were the tools of a more modern age – the combination of search engines and digitized, online newspaper databanks that place millions of articles at our fingertips.

With these tools and the right search parameters, researchers can now reduce the endless hours once required to comb newspaper (and other) archives to mere minutes. That ability leads to some fascinating discoveries. https://emergingcivilwar.com/2016/04/16/the-man-in-the-corner/
Some might say the back room politics is the story of the CW. I don't know if I'd go that far but it is an essential yet relatively untold part of the story. (Read Lincoln's Autocrat by Marvel- or at least view the video of his talk at the Archives- for evidence of this.)
There is so much unpublished and undigitized primary source material in libraries across the country. Perhaps grad students and those trained to help could work to copy these resources. Something like a Google books or Archives.Org for manuscripts.
 
I love the back room politics of the CW. I just finished a great series of articles also found on the Emerging Civil War website regarding George Gordon Meade, The Retreat from Gettysburg and the Joint Committee on the Conduct of the War. Fabricated letters, false accusations, etc: I love it all!

I am no more informed after this current Powell article, than I was before it, because I feel that more source needs to be uncovered. I DO, however, really like the concept that with easier access to information via internet, there are still many articles and books to be written. Write on!

William Lamers’s outstanding biography of William S. Rosecrans was first published in 1961. Lamers mined the voluminous Rosecrans Papers extensively, which is where he found the Darr letter. He plumbed a wealth of other sources as well; the Chicago Tribune among them. What he lacked, of course, were the tools of a more modern age – the combination of search engines and digitized, online newspaper databanks that place millions of articles at our fingertips.

With these tools and the right search parameters, researchers can now reduce the endless hours once required to comb newspaper (and other) archives to mere minutes. That ability leads to some fascinating discoveries. https://emergingcivilwar.com/2016/04/16/the-man-in-the-corner/
Bee,looking into the conduct of the Joint Committee is a whole can of worms by itself.just start researching about good ole Ben Wade and you will see maybe the worst politician ever.a real piece of work.
 
Bee,looking into the conduct of the Joint Committee is a whole can of worms by itself.just start researching about good ole Ben Wade and you will see maybe the worst politician ever.a real piece of work.

YES! He (Ben Wade) is my CW "extracurricular" read this weekend) After reading the articles, I was left with a desire to know more about this guy Wade (add him to my hall of shame: Sickles, Pleasonton..) I cannot help to note that "old friend" Stanton is once again present and accounted for. That man DID get around.
 
Some might say the back room politics is the story of the CW. I don't know if I'd go that far but it is an essential yet relatively untold part of the story. (Read Lincoln's Autocrat by Marvel- or at least view the video of his talk at the Archives- for evidence of this.)
There is so much unpublished and undigitized primary source material in libraries across the country. Perhaps grad students and those trained to help could work to copy these resources. Something like a Google books or Archives.Org for manuscripts.
Garfield was an extremely intelligent person so he might have played both sides against the middle and originally bashed Rosecrans but when Dana came to the fore front as the No.1 Rosecrans basher Garfield may have jumped ship and decided to praise Rosecrans.I do believe we will never know but the door swings both ways.
 
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YES! He (Ben Wade) is my CW "extracurricular" read this weekend) After reading the articles, I was left with a desire to know more about this guy Wade (add him to my hall of shame: Sickles, Pleasonton..) I cannot help to note that "old friend" Stanton is once again present and accounted for. That man DID get around.
Ben Wade is like cream, he rises to the top.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bee
Garfield was an extremely intelligent person so he might have played both sides against the middle and originally bashed Rosecrans but when Dana came to the fore front as the No.1 Rosecrans basher Garfield may have jumped ship and decided to praise Rosecrans.I do believe we will never know but the door swings both ways.
Garfield himself wrote in a letter in 1863 to Chase that he loved every bone in Rosecrans' body. When Rosecrans was in military limbo in February 1864 he gave a moving speech on the House floor defending him. In June 1864 he sent a telegram to Rosecrans offering to nominate him for the vice presidency. Rosecrans assented but his telegram never got back to Garfield at the Baltimore convention. The two believed Stanton had intercepted the telegram which passed through the War Dept. In 1867 he again defended Rosecrans and "the service he rendered to the nation when it needed friends." The break in friendship between the two was in part the result of allegations of Garfield's duplicity that Dana has published in his NY Sun. Rosecrans tended to believe Dana until the truth about Dana came out later. Garfield was politically ambitious but I believe he truly liked and respected Rosecrans. Not the least of their common interests was theology. I have a lot on the Garfield-Rosecrans relationship in my book.
 
YES! He (Ben Wade) is my CW "extracurricular" read this weekend) After reading the articles, I was left with a desire to know more about this guy Wade (add him to my hall of shame: Sickles, Pleasonton..) I cannot help to note that "old friend" Stanton is once again present and accounted for. That man DID get around.
Stanton might be the key non military figure of the war.
 
Stanton again! Are any of the pro-Rosecrans letters written by Garfield available?[/QUOTE
A lot of what Garfield wrote has been published in books over the years.
Here are some leading titles:
The Garfield Orbit by Margaret Leech
Life and Letters of JA Garfied by Theodore Clark Smith
Garfield-Hinsdale Letters by JA Garfield and BA and Mary Hinsdale
Crete and James Personal Letters by JA and Lucretia Garfield and John Shaw
Wild Life of the Army by Frederick D. Williams
One will need access to a good-actually several- research libraries to find all these books.
The "Love every bone in his body" letter is the (in)famous letter from Garfield to Chase written before Chickamauga.
It can be found in the Hinsdale book on page 774.
I provided above a link to his Feb 1864 speech in Congress.
The Vice presidency offer letters are at the LOC and UCLA.
The letters between John Russell Young and Garfield are in his papers at LOC.
I do have citations from those letters in my book.
Some of the most interesting things in the letters are Garfield's thoughts about Rosecrans' religious beliefs.
 
Just when we thought it was over author historian Dave Powell posted an essay on his favorite subject CHICKAMAUGA.This was posted on the blog "Emerging Civilwar" which is one that I follow.I do hope that Mr.Joseph A.Rose and David Moore read this as I would like to hear how they respond to this controversy.

http://emergingingcivilwar.com/2016/04/16/the-man-in-the-corner/
I just noticed the General's name is misspelled in the thread title. That is a very common occurrence. His brother Sylvester's name is misspelled on a plaque near his tomb in the cathedral of Columbus.
 
Stanton again! Are any of the pro-Rosecrans letters written by Garfield available?
A lot of what Garfield wrote has been published in books over the years.
Here are some leading titles:
The Garfield Orbit by Margaret Leech
Life and Letters of JA Garfied by Theodore Clark Smith
Garfield-Hinsdale Letters by JA Garfield and BA and Mary Hinsdale
Crete and James Personal Letters by JA and Lucretia Garfield and John Shaw
Wild Life of the Army by Frederick D. Williams
One will need access to a good-actually several- research libraries to find all these books.
The "Love every bone in his body" letter is the (in)famous letter from Garfield to Chase written before Chickamauga.
It can be found in the Hinsdale book on page 774.
I provided above a link to his Feb 1864 speech in Congress.
The Vice presidency offer letters are at the LOC and UCLA.
The letters between John Russell Young and Garfield are in his papers at LOC.
I do have citations from those letters in my book.
Some of the most interesting things in the letters are Garfield's thoughts about Rosecrans' religious beliefs.
 
A lot of what Garfield wrote has been published in books over the years.
Here are some leading titles:
The Garfield Orbit by Margaret Leech
Life and Letters of JA Garfied by Theodore Clark Smith
Garfield-Hinsdale Letters by JA Garfield and BA and Mary Hinsdale
Crete and James Personal Letters by JA and Lucretia Garfield and John Shaw
Wild Life of the Army by Frederick D. Williams
One will need access to a good-actually several- research libraries to find all these books.

Or upstairs in my library here at my house. :smile:

I've been slowly gathering material with the idea of eventually doing a book on Garfield's Civil War service. I may yet do so.
 
Or upstairs in my library here at my house. :smile:

I've been slowly gathering material with the idea of eventually doing a book on Garfield's Civil War service. I may yet do so

THAT would just bee to cool! To have you write another book on a topic that I am getting acquainted with (they are far and few between, so it's great to bee in on the conversation)
 
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