Restricted "Monument honoring abolition of slavery unveiled in Richmond two weeks after Robert E. Lee statue was removed"

Andersonh1

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If that had been added to the existing set of monuments, I'd have cheered it. As a replacement after other beautiful works of art have been torn down and otherwise defaced, I'm sorry, I don't have the heart to be happy about what should otherwise be a long overdue addition to the commemorative landscape.
 

Pete Longstreet

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If that had been added to the existing set of monuments, I'd have cheered it. As a replacement after other beautiful works of art have been torn down and otherwise defaced, I'm sorry, I don't have the heart to be happy about what should otherwise be a long overdue addition to the commemorative landscape.
If it had been added, I think the message would be more of unity. But tearing down and replacing with, just deepens the divide.
 

Pete Longstreet

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It's not a replacement, either in intent or symbolically. But of course you're free to dislike it.

- Alan
I think you missed the point... I never said I didn't like it. I actually do like it. But it was the way everything was torn down, and this statue erected. I could be wrong because I don't live there... but the City had a chance to unify the people, but instead they added fuel to the already burning political and racial fire.
 

ForeverFree

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I think you missed the point... I never said I didn't like it. I actually do like it.
OK, thanks for your comment.

But it was the way everything was torn down, and this statue erected.
Just to get clarity on a point that was made earlier: this monument was not a replacement. It was planned before the Confederate monuments were taken down. It so happens that the events involving these monuments occurred concurrently. It is an odd quirk of fate that these things happened around the same time... the gods can be whimsical.
I could be wrong because I don't live there... but the City had a chance to unify the people, but instead they added fuel to the already burning political and racial fire.
This discussion is not about race. The amount of melanin in someone's skin, or lack thereof, does not explain the feelings toward these monuments. I think you'd be insulted if I said your views were solely a result of you having white skin; and you'd be right to be insulted.

The issue is not race, it's is about slavery, segregation, and dealing with the memory of oppression. It has become bound up in race because only people with African descent were bound by slavery and segregation. But it's not a black and white issue, and neither so-called blacks nor so-called whites should feel that way. I will admit to any mistakes I've made in this vein, I know I need to work on it.

So take this approach to understand how this controversy came: ignore the "race" aspects, and focus solely on oppression, its history, its effects, and how we deal with that on the public landscape.
 

19thGeorgia

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"It's not a replacement"

A lot of news outlets are describing it that way-

"Monument marking end of slavery replaces Robert E. Lee statue in Virginia"
https://www.ajc.com/news/monument-m...tatue-in-virginia/XF7EHQEVW5B4DBLNPLOG4LM63U/

"New Monument Marking The End Of Slavery Has Replaced Robert E. Lee Statue In Virginia"
https://www.wuft.org/nation-world/2...has-replaced-robert-e-lee-statue-in-virginia/

"Monument of General Lee replaced with monument marking end of slavery"
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/m...t-marking-end-of-slavery/ar-AAOKwEt?ocid=a2hs
 

Pete Longstreet

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OK, thanks for your comment.


Just to get clarity on a point that was made earlier: this monument was not a replacement. It was planned before the Confederate monuments were taken down. It so happens that the events involving these monuments occurred concurrently. It is an odd quirk of fate that these things happened around the same time... the gods can be whimsical.

This discussion is not about race. The amount of melanin in someone's skin, or lack thereof, does not explain the feelings toward these monuments. I think you'd be insulted if I said your views were solely a result of you having white skin; and you'd be right to be insulted.

The issue is not race, it's is about slavery, segregation, and dealing with the memory of oppression. It has become bound up in race because only people with African descent were bound by slavery and segregation. But it's not a black and white issue, and neither so-called blacks nor so-called whites should feel that way. I will admit to any mistakes I've made in this vein, I know I need to work on it.

So take this approach to understand how this controversy came: ignore the "race" aspects, and focus solely on oppression, its history, its effects, and how we deal with that on the public landscape.
@ForeverFree you misconstrued the points in my posts. I was referring to the chance for unification. I agree with some of your comments, but I'm not going down that road and wayyy off topic. This nation is divided. It's just facts. Look at the emotions from members on this forum regarding monuments. The City could have met on common ground, thus bringing people together, even with opposing views on monuments. But it's these "shoot from the hip" reactions that never seem to resolve, but exacerbate the situation.
 

ForeverFree

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"It's not a replacement"

A lot of news outlets are describing it that way-

"Monument marking end of slavery replaces Robert E. Lee statue in Virginia"
https://www.ajc.com/news/monument-m...tatue-in-virginia/XF7EHQEVW5B4DBLNPLOG4LM63U/

"New Monument Marking The End Of Slavery Has Replaced Robert E. Lee Statue In Virginia"
https://www.wuft.org/nation-world/2...has-replaced-robert-e-lee-statue-in-virginia/

"Monument of General Lee replaced with monument marking end of slavery"
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/m...t-marking-end-of-slavery/ar-AAOKwEt?ocid=a2hs
Well, let's look at the facts: from here:

The project to build the monument began as part of the Virginia Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Memorial Commission's commemoration of the 150th anniversary of the Emancipation Proclamation and the abolition of slavery in the United States.​
In 2013, the Commission issued a request for proposals for a monument to commemorate emancipation from slavery. After considering several proposals, in 2014, the Commission notified sculptor Thomas Jay Warren of Oregon of his selection as the artist, for his proposal featuring bronze 12-foot male and female figures representing a man and woman holding an infant, newly freed from slavery.​
For the new monument to be a replacement, that would mean that way back in 2013, they knew the Lee monument was going to come down in September of 2021. I don't think that's possible.

- Alan
 
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JerryD

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Aug 23, 2021
@ForeverFree you misconstrued the points in my posts. I was referring to the chance for unification. I agree with some of your comments, but I'm not going down that road and wayyy off topic. This nation is divided. It's just facts. Look at the emotions from members on this forum regarding monuments. The City could have met on common ground, thus bringing people together, even with opposing views on monuments. But it's these "shoot from the hip" reactions that never seem to resolve, but exacerbate the situation.
I dont see how you are going to find common ground between people who are offended by the monuments, and people who are offended by removing the monuments. I dont see any chance for unity here by adding another monument. I personally would have left most of the monuments that have been removed, but I also think society has the right to decide who it wants to honor by maintaining monuments, and are not bound by decisions made my prior generations. Memphis is a majority black city, so I think it was perfectly legit for it to decide it no longer wanted to honor Forrest, even though prior generations of Memphians wanted to honor him. I may make a different decision, but its hard to disagree that they have the perfect right to decide otherwise.
 

ForeverFree

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@ForeverFree you misconstrued the points in my posts. I was referring to the chance for unification. I agree with some of your comments, but I'm not going down that road and wayyy off topic. This nation is divided. It's just facts. Look at the emotions from members on this forum regarding monuments. The City could have met on common ground, thus bringing people together, even with opposing views on monuments. But it's these "shoot from the hip" reactions that never seem to resolve, but exacerbate the situation.
PL,

You said "but instead they added fuel to the already burning political and racial fire." Those were your words.

There is nothing racial about the controversy concerning these monuments. Saying that the controversy "adds fuel to the... racial fire" does not unify, it is itself divisive. The Lee monument was not being criticized because Lee was white, it was criticized because Lee was a Confederate. Many of the people who protested the Lee monument were white. The governor who ordered the removal of the Lee monument was white. There were white and black people in Virginia who were happy to see the monument come down. In fact, opposition to the monument united many blacks and whites. The white population is not a monolith that feels that criticism of Confederate objects is an attack on white people, and in fact, nobody should construe criticism of Confederate objects as an attack on white people. For these reasons, I cite the comment about adding fuel to the "racial fire" to be problematic.

I feel I have to say this: I am not in any way saying that your views are racist, I'm not saying they are race baiting or whatever. I'm not trying to make you feel defensive in your views. I appreciate this chance to say things you might not hear in any other forums you might visit. I am suggesting that the best way to put out an "already burning... racial fire" is to simply not add to it. In this case it means rejecting the notion that this is about race, or look to it as adding to racial conflict. This will not go away as a racial conflict as long as you think it adds to racial conflict... it's a self fulfilling prophecy. There is certainly a conflict here, but it doesn't have to be racial fire. And it shouldn't be.

- Alan
 
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ForeverFree

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I doubt there was anything random about Northam's arbitrary decision; I think it has more to do with overcompensating for his own past and saving his political skin.
My point is that it is a coincidence that the Lee statue went down just 2 weeks away from the Freedom monument dedication. Northam did not control the intensity of the protests against the Lee Monument, he didn't control the timing of the VA Supreme Court ruling that affirmed the legality of removing the Lee monument, that was out of his hands. It looks to me like events kind of snowballed, I doubt that on January 1, 2021, Northam was planning to have the Lee monument removed.

I don't know that this was about saving Northam's political skin. He's a lame duck who's 5 months away from leaving office. I would agree that he probably feels his decision was good for his legacy. I also have no doubt that he feels this was the right thing to do.

- Alan
 

Viper21

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My point is that it is a coincidence that the Lee statue went down just 2 weeks away from the Freedom monument dedication. Northam did not control the intensity of the protests against the Lee Monument, he didn't control the timing of the VA Supreme Court ruling that affirmed the legality of removing the Lee monument, that was out of his hands. It looks to me like events kind of snowballed, I doubt that on January 1, 2021, Northam was planning to have the Lee monument removed.
He was working on that much sooner than this past January. His public comments, & actions on the topic are easy to find.
I don't know that this was about saving Northam's political skin. He's a lame duck who's 5 months away from leaving office. I would agree that he probably feels his decision was good for his legacy. I also have no doubt that he feels this was the right thing to do.

- Alan
Northam didn't come after these monuments in earnest, until AFTER he was caught up in his own racial controversy.

Lame duck or not, he'd love another 6 year term down the road. Just like the fella taking his spot on their party's ticket.
 

unionblue

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If and when it does, will we just shrug it off as the people expressing their will?
Or will we examine potential vandals motives and determine if it isn't the people's will, but just simple racism? Or just sick individuals who get off desecrating graveyards and monuments because they are too cowardly to face living, breathing, human beings over issues they find objectionable?
 

Viper21

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Or will we examine potential vandals motives and determine if it isn't the people's will, but just simple racism? Or just sick individuals who get off desecrating graveyards and monuments because they are too cowardly to face living, breathing, human beings over issues they find objectionable?
When & IF this statue is vandalized, I bet the vandals won't be treated the same way the Lee monument vandals were treated.
 
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