Monument Avenue Statues In Richmond, VA

Andersonh1

Brigadier General
Moderator
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Jan 12, 2016
Location
South Carolina
Could you elaborate please. I don't always agree with your posts, but I do find them to be well thought out so want to hear more from you on this.

We long ago passed civil rights legislation, and started honoring minorities in the public square with monuments and with streets and buildings named after them. Now there's more we could and should do, certainly, to balance the historical commemorative landscape, but the idea that change has to "start" is clearly false, because it already started long ago.

And as a number of us have pointed out, when it comes to removing memorials from the landscape, it hasn't stopped with Confederates. The "change" we're rapidly heading toward here, in my view, is not racial equity and justice through pulling down statues. We're reaching or in some places are already at the point where the vast majority of American history is unacceptable for public commemoration, and that's not healthy for any of us. Instead of making us all Americans with a common history, it continues the "us vs them" trend of dividing people up into groups and pitting them against each other. This group can celebrate their history, that group can't. I don't see how reconciliation and justice can come from that.
 
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JFW22

Cadet
Joined
Feb 20, 2021
Location
Virginia Beach VA
We long ago passed civil rights legislation, and started honoring minorities in the public square with monuments and with streets and buildings named after them. Now there's more we could and should do, certainly, to balance the historical commemorative landscape, but the idea that change has to "start" is clearly false, because it already started long ago.

And as a number of us have pointed out, when it comes to removing memorials from the landscape, it hasn't stopped with Confederates. The "change" we're rapidly heading toward here, in my view, is not racial equity and justice through pulling down statues. We're reaching or in some places are already at the point where the vast majority of American history is unacceptable for public commemoration, and that's not healthy for any of us. Instead of making us all Americans with a common history, it continues the "us vs them" trend of dividing people up into groups and pitting them against each other. This group can celebrate their history, that group can't. I don't see how reconciliation and justice can come from that.
Very well put. Attempts to erase history isn’t progress but naive. It doesn’t heal wounds, but only creates a new divide. We should recognize those who got us to this point in history, but we should be celebrating the progress we have made as a nation in changing the culture, rather than continuing to make it an “us vs.them”. There is never going to be a winner in that argument, as history has shown.
 

PapaReb

First Sergeant
Joined
Feb 9, 2020
Location
Arkansas CSA occupied
And I would disagree by saying the 'change' you assume was not even an inch deep no matter how long ago you assume it took place.
The changes that took place during the civil rights movement during the 50s, 60s, and 70s were only “an inch deep? Don’t know where you were during that time but the changes that I saw were quite substantial and made a substantial difference in society.
 

unionblue

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Member of the Year
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Feb 20, 2005
Location
Ocala, FL (as of December, 2015).
The changes that took place during the civil rights movement during the 50s, 60s, and 70s were only “an inch deep? Don’t know where you were during that time but the changes that I saw were quite substantial and made a substantial difference in society.
I was there, and being a white man I was impressed by some of the changes I saw.

Changes in the law, but little in change of attitude.

And being white, it is hard for me to judge how blacks would feel about all this 'change.'
 

steamman

Private
Joined
May 26, 2020
Location
Columbus, Ga
Given the rationale for why these are being removed, can we assume that the communities these once stood in are now more just and equal? Or rather, as I would argue, that the removal of a statue does absolutely nothing to cure the condition of someone's heart, and things continue to be exactly the same, just with one less historic statue on the landscape.
Preserve history from the outsiders and politically correct.
 

jcaesar

Private
Joined
Aug 28, 2020
Is that legal?
The AG from outward appearance is using the verdict coming down in a certain police trial that I won’t name and the possible public response as a pressure point.

The Supreme Court froze the removal of the statue for the court case. The AG is saying try again and move it before the case and is using the current tensions as a back drop. The VA SC can backtrack, but it would be clear it was influenced by events instead of the law given their last ruling.
 

unionblue

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Member of the Year
Joined
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Location
Ocala, FL (as of December, 2015).
The AG from outward appearance is using the verdict coming down in a certain police trial that I won’t name and the possible public response as a pressure point.

The Supreme Court froze the removal of the statue for the court case. The AG is saying try again and move it before the case and is using the current tensions as a back drop. The VA SC can backtrack, but it would be clear it was influenced by events instead of the law given their last ruling.
Are we talking the Virginia Supreme Court? And do you suppose the Supreme Court cannot take in the present social and political climate into it's future rulings?
 

PapaReb

First Sergeant
Joined
Feb 9, 2020
Location
Arkansas CSA occupied
Are we talking the Virginia Supreme Court? And do you suppose the Supreme Court cannot take in the present social and political climate into it's future rulings?
”Social” and “Political” should have no bearing whatsoever in any court of law. The words that should influence a courts rulings are “Legal” and “Constitutional”.
 

dlofting

First Sergeant
Joined
Aug 13, 2013
Location
Vancouver, BC, Canada
The AG from outward appearance is using the verdict coming down in a certain police trial that I won’t name and the possible public response as a pressure point.

The Supreme Court froze the removal of the statue for the court case. The AG is saying try again and move it before the case and is using the current tensions as a back drop. The VA SC can backtrack, but it would be clear it was influenced by events instead of the law given their last ruling.
I read the article but not the brief. It doesn't provide any of the commentary in your post. Do you have another source for this ?
 

unionblue

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Member of the Year
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Location
Ocala, FL (as of December, 2015).
”Social” and “Political” should have no bearing whatsoever in any court of law. The words that should influence a courts rulings are “Legal” and “Constitutional”.
I suppose you have a deed to your property, right? Should a court revoke that deed (or any deed) because of the "present social and political climate?"
Indeed justice is supposed to be blind to "social or political" influence. And simply rule impartially on the established law.
To all of the above:

AGREED!

The social and political doings and leanings should have no effect upon the Supreme Court of Virginia or any other court. So if it decides to permit the City of Richmond and the mayor of the city to remove the monument, that would be OK with all of you?
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Location
mo
To all of the above:

AGREED!

The social and political doings and leanings should have no effect upon the Supreme Court of Virginia or any other court. So if it decides to permit the City of Richmond and the mayor of the city to remove the monument, that would be OK with all of yo
If the state Supreme Court decided based on the social or political climate as you earlier suggested....and now say they shouldn't, it would likely be appealed to yet the highest court.

Thought the injunction was so one of the appeals should have a hearing....see little basis for the AG to say such a hearing shouldnt proceed and instead the injunction be dissolved. Would think procedure exists to be followed.
 
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