Monument Avenue Statues In Richmond, VA

Quaama

Sergeant
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Sep 13, 2020
Location
Port Macquarie, Australia
An appeal against the removal of the R E Lee monument has been filed [link] but there is no indication as to whether the appeal will be heard. The article also says that if the appeal fails to stop the removal then an appeal would be made to the U. S. Supreme Court as it is contended that "the state's action violates federal contract law".

I have also read that in the past week a high fence has been installed around the monument stands on (but no-one has bothered to clean off the graffiti on the monument).

Looks like this will go on for a very long time.
 

unionblue

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
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Location
Ocala, FL (as of December, 2015).
Does it matter? Neither one is an excuse for vandalism. “Peacefully Assemble”. They’ve missed the mark.

Yes, it does matter.

Sometimes, when you have no other option, no voice, no ability to effect change, when no one listens nor cares about your point of view, sometimes that frustration can erupt into other means rather than any kind of "peacefully Assemble."
 

huskerblitz

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Jun 8, 2013
Location
Nebraska
Sometimes, when you have no other option, no voice, no ability to effect change, when no one listens nor cares about your point of view, sometimes that frustration can erupt into other means rather than any kind of "peacefully Assemble."
I think you just described how the Confederacy felt. Edited.
 
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RobertP

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Nov 11, 2009
Location
Dallas
Yes, it does matter.

Sometimes, when you have no other option, no voice, no ability to effect change, when no one listens nor cares about your point of view, sometimes that frustration can erupt into other means rather than any kind of "peacefully Assemble."
With all due respect UB the vast majority of youths pulling down statues are white college kids who are provoked by white anarchists. These people have plenty of options, a lot more than you did when you graduated high school and joined the Army.
 

Viper21

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Rockbridge County, Virginia
Yes, it does matter.

Sometimes, when you have no other option, no voice, no ability to effect change, when no one listens nor cares about your point of view, sometimes that frustration can erupt into other means rather than any kind of "peacefully Assemble."
So, either "Equal Protection Under the Law" matters, or it doesn't (14th Amend).

We've all seen this play out in real life, publicly viewable for all to see, in the last year. Clearly there have been two different standards applied.

How can one groups "frustration" be applauded, while another groups condemned..? Appears as hypocrisy, & double standards to me.
 

steamman

Private
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May 26, 2020
Location
Columbus, Ga
So, either "Equal Protection Under the Law" matters, or it doesn't (14th Amend).

We've all seen this play out in real life, publicly viewable for all to see, in the last year. Clearly there have been two different standards applied.

How can one groups "frustration" be applauded, while another groups condemned..? Appears as hypocrisy, & double standards to me.
Me also.
 

atlantis

Sergeant Major
Joined
Nov 12, 2016
Per court approval for removal the Lee mount will be disassembled as will the pedestal and all place in storage. It is state property and no word yet on final disposition plans such as left in storage, relocated or sold or donated. As a noted work of monumental art the value is quite high and would be a fine addition for a public square or park for any community seeking to enhance their public landscape. There are not many places you can get a 1890 work of art especially one of this scale. For a mid sized southern city seeking to boost tourism the lee monument would be a real asset.
 

Viper21

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Rockbridge County, Virginia
Per court approval for removal the Lee mount will be disassembled as will the pedestal and all place in storage. It is state property and no word yet on final disposition plans such as left in storage, relocated or sold or donated. As a noted work of monumental art the value is quite high and would be a fine addition for a public square or park for any community seeking to enhance their public landscape. There are not many places you can get a 1890 work of art especially one of this scale. For a mid sized southern city seeking to boost tourism the lee monument would be a real asset.
Are you talking about The Lee Monument on Monument Ave in Richmond..? If so, I don't think that one has been decided yet. Last I was aware, the VA Supreme Court upheld an injunction leaving the monument where it is, until the case can be resolved (Dec '20).

It's not so clear whether or not VA's Gov has the authority to remove it. Seems if I recall correctly, there was some very specific language in the deed, when it was given to the State. If I am indeed correct, a very interesting precedent is going to be set with this case. Either stipulations in deeds matter, or they don't. It's going to be interesting to see what actually happens.
 

Quaama

Sergeant
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Location
Port Macquarie, Australia
Per court approval for removal the Lee mount will be disassembled as will the pedestal and all place in storage. It is state property and no word yet on final disposition plans such as left in storage, relocated or sold or donated. As a noted work of monumental art the value is quite high and would be a fine addition for a public square or park for any community seeking to enhance their public landscape. There are not many places you can get a 1890 work of art especially one of this scale. For a mid sized southern city seeking to boost tourism the lee monument would be a real asset.

I think it will be some time before this happens [see Post #423 above] as an appeal against the removal of the R E Lee monument has only recently been filed in the Virginia Supreme Court and there is no indication as to when (or whether) the appeal will be heard.
As I said in that earlier post:
"The [linked] article also says that if the appeal fails to stop the removal then an appeal would be made to the U. S. Supreme Court as it is contended that "the state's action violates federal contract law".
A high fence has been installed around the land the monument stands on (but no-one has bothered to clean off the graffiti on the monument).

As @Viper21 said "there was some very specific language in the deed when it was given to the State". The land on which the monument stands was gifted to the State of Virginia by real estate investor Otway S. Allen and his sisters, Bettie F. Allen Gregory and Martha Allen Wilson and the deed (pages 367-370 in Deed Book 129B) says:
"[Virginia] executes this instrument in token of her acceptance of the gift and her guarantee that she will hold said Statue and pedestal and Circle of ground perpetually sacred to the Monumental purpose to which they have been devoted and that she will faithfully guard it and affectionately protect it".

As I have said earlier in this thread, I do not see anything ambiguous about that requirement - the land was gifted for the sole purpose of having the R E monument being placed upon it and required Virginia to hold that land "perpetually sacred" and to "faithfully guard" and "affectionately protect" the monument. Something the State of Virginia has sadly failed to do.

The current court ruling [full Letter of Opinion here] effectively says that the covenant in the deed is null as it is in contravention of current public policy (i.e laws enacted to have the R E Lee monument removed) and uses that as its main reason to rule that the monument be removed. The court also took into account testimony that "there is a consensus that the monuments are a troubling presence".
 

PapaReb

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Feb 9, 2020
Location
Arkansas CSA occupied
They have erected a fence around the monument in preparation for dismantling it. The article I read said that the base would remain in place for the time being.
 

WJC

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Per court approval for removal the Lee mount will be disassembled as will the pedestal and all place in storage. It is state property and no word yet on final disposition plans such as left in storage, relocated or sold or donated. As a noted work of monumental art the value is quite high and would be a fine addition for a public square or park for any community seeking to enhance their public landscape. There are not many places you can get a 1890 work of art especially one of this scale. For a mid sized southern city seeking to boost tourism the lee monument would be a real asset.
Sadly, "a real asset" or a huge, ongoing problem. Most of these statues will probably be relegated to a warehouse, not unlike the one in the closing scene of Spielberg's Raiders of the Lost Ark.
 
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