Money, Money, Money Makes the Secession Go Round

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Jimbo_Poke

Private
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
With the relief on the way and Lincoln figuring it would be fired on----the Confederates decided to fire on the fort. Lincoln called for his 90 day wonders and the war was on---He got his wish--Southern fire.
This is the second reference to 90 day wonders in this thread. Do you know why 90 days, why 75,000? Hint it involves the Constitution, Congress, and the laws passed by congress. Look at what happened when Congress got back in session.

As for this whole thread talk about missing the forest for a tree. Someone figures out the the U.S. would be economically damaged by the south seceding, real sherlock Holmes here. It was more than economic damage though. Set the precedent of just letting states leave because they use force and don't like the result of an election? The Union wouldn't survive, hello Balkanized North America. States unilaterally seceding without the input of the whole nation establishes death for the republic. So yeah when those South Carolina fellas fired on U.S. troops Lincoln reacted the same way Jackson would have, or how Washington did. To focus on the economic damage while ignoring the damage to the nation is like focusing on a a scraped knee while the kid is concussed. The U.S. did have a moral reason to keep the states rebelling by force in and that is survival of the republic. That is why Lincoln and the U.S. reacted to what the rebelling states started.
 

major bill

Colonel
Forum Host
Joined
Aug 25, 2012
Jimbo_Poke you do not expect people here on the forum to read or even care about the US Constitution do you? Laws passed by the US Congress?
 

WJC

Major General
Judge Adv. Genl.
Thread Medic
Answered the Call for Reinforcements
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Maybe the natural feature, but discussions of a Fort there tend to be full of vortices.
Thanks for your response.
Seems "Fort" is just one of several 'trigger words' that blot out all serious, factual discussion....
 
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Robert Rutledge

Private
Joined
Mar 14, 2016
Location
Maryland
As for this whole thread talk about missing the forest for a tree. Someone figures out the the U.S. would be economically damaged by the south seceding, real sherlock Holmes here. It was more than economic damage though. Set the precedent of just letting states leave because they use force and don't like the result of an election? The Union wouldn't survive, hello Balkanized North America. States unilaterally seceding without the input of the whole nation establishes death for the republic. So yeah when those South Carolina fellas fired on U.S. troops Lincoln reacted the same way Jackson would have, or how Washington did. To focus on the economic damage while ignoring the damage to the nation is like focusing on a a scraped knee while the kid is concussed. The U.S. did have a moral reason to keep the states rebelling by force in and that is survival of the republic. That is why Lincoln and the U.S. reacted to what the rebelling states started.
Not only the survival of the republic, but survival of the concept of representative governments. The American Experiment was still an experiment, and successful secession would seriously hampered the development of democracies around the world.

The dismantling of the United States would have profound consequences worldwide, and not just because America's role would change. It would be the prime example people pointed to when choosing a less representative government. "Do you want to end up like America?" would be the rallying cry for monarchies and authoritarian governments for generations. The survival/proliferation of representative government may have been Lincoln's most important and underrated achievement.

If you're living somewhere where elections are held, you owe at least some amount of gratitude to Lincoln.
 
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CSA Today

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Location
Laurinburg NC
As if "money, money, money" was the only thing of value that would be lost if secession were to secede.
For once we agree, while I don't feel economic considerations should be disregarded, the right to self- determination is certainly more valuable overall. You can achieve a lot of things once you have self-determination.
 

Rebforever

Lt. Colonel
Joined
Oct 26, 2012
Not only the survival of the republic, but survival of the concept of representative governments. The American Experiment was still an experiment, and successful secession would seriously hampered the development of democracies around the world.

The dismantling of the United States would have profound consequences worldwide, and not just because America's role would change. It would be the prime example people pointed to when choosing a less representative government. "Do you want to end up like America?" would be the rallying cry for monarchies and authoritarian governments for generations. The survival/proliferation of representative government may have been Lincoln's most important and underrated achievement.

If you're living somewhere where elections are held, you owe at least some amount of gratitude to Lincoln.
No, I don't hand anything to Lincoln. But I will say a Prayer t those 600,000 plus who died for what they believed in both the Blue & Gray. Amen.
 
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jgoodguy

Banished Forever
-:- A Mime -:-
is a terrible thing...
Don’t feed the Mime
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Location
Birmingham, Alabama
For once we agree, while I don't feel economic considerations should be disregarded, the right to self- determination is certainly more valuable overall. You can achieve a lot of things once you have self-determination.
or not.
 
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unionblue

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Member of the Year
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Feb 20, 2005
Location
Ocala, FL (as of December, 2015).
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unionblue

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Member of the Year
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Location
Ocala, FL (as of December, 2015).
Much of history is hypocrisy.
Side-step.

In calling victimhood for Southern whites the real hypocrisy is the actual history gets lost in all the chest-thumping of those same whites, who formed the Ku Klux Klan, who also voted in the white Redeemer state governments. who did their absolute utmost to win a war lost on the battlefield.

It is recorded in history the deliberate steps to reduce newly freed blacks to one level above slavery, deny their civil rights, and terrorize them so that those poor whites who temporarily lost their voting rights could go right on maintaining their positions of power and white supremacy.

Much of history is a mirror to those who just can't stand their own reflections.

There's your hypocrisy.
 
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CSA Today

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Location
Laurinburg NC
Side-step.

In calling victimhood for Southern whites the real hypocrisy is the actual history gets lost in all the chest-thumping of those same whites, who formed the Ku Klux Klan, who also voted in the white Redeemer state governments. who did their absolute utmost to win a war lost on the battlefield.

It is recorded in history the deliberate steps to reduce newly freed blacks to one level above slavery, deny their civil rights, and terrorize them so that those poor whites who temporarily lost their voting rights could go right on maintaining their positions of power and white supremacy.

Much of history is a mirror to those who just can't stand their own reflections.

There's your hypocrisy
.
“Side Step”? You are dancing all over the place trying to avoid my question.
Good point, much of 19th US history comes to mind.
 
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