Looking back on the whole bloody mess, I truly believe that it was completely pointless EXCEPT as a maneuver to obliterate southern independence.

NedBaldwin

Major
Joined
Feb 19, 2011
Location
California
Lincoln called his cabinet together right after his inauguration to make plans for the South. Which included his final plan of attack.
Which was what? A plan to reinforce existing federal property like Sumter and Pickea... in other words not a full scale invasion at all...

It’s really amazing how little “invasion” there was in 1861. Spring of 1862 there was more but that was year into it
 
Which was what? A plan to reinforce existing federal property like Sumter and Pickea... in other words not a full scale invasion at all...

It’s really amazing how little “invasion” there was in 1861. Spring of 1862 there was more but that was year into it
The thought process of some is amazing. To them, Lincoln's response to Ft. Sumter was an "invasion" of the Southern states yet the Confederate response to U.S. troops in a Federal fort was NOT an act of war because nobody was injured or killed.
 

wausaubob

Lt. Colonel
Joined
Apr 4, 2017
Location
Denver, CO
And what was this final plan of attack?

Is this another theory along the lines of 'the mastermind Lincoln tricked the gullible secessionists into shooting first?'
There wasn't very much "attacking" until Lincoln found out whether the British were going to honor the blockade, and whether the five border areas were going to remain in the US or secede. But of course the use of the word attack is a rhetorical flourish all of its own. The US gave the Confederates the temporary honor of being treated as foreign belligerents. But the US could not attack its own states. Attack gives rhetorical expression to a sense of grievance, which is more of a contemporary sentiment, and not historical.
 

DanSBHawk

1st Lieutenant
Joined
May 8, 2015
Location
Wisconsin
Well, the way I see this you are leading me on or you have already read them or your time is more valuable than mine. I’ll just bow out right here.
No, my time is no more valuable. Just wondering what you considered to be this "final plan of attack."

Everything that I've read suggests that Lincoln hoped he could avoid war, and he would not be the one who attacked first.
 
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CSA Today

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Location
Laurinburg NC
The "north" wasn't the ones who started shooting. It was the secessionists that chose war.

One wonders why Lincoln wanted to keep troops on Southern soil if he intended to let the new Confederate states depart his union in peace.

“And men will tell their children,
Tho’ all other memories fade,
How they fought with Stonewall Jackson
In the old Stonewall Brigade.”
 

DanSBHawk

1st Lieutenant
Joined
May 8, 2015
Location
Wisconsin
One wonders why Lincoln wanted to keep troops on Southern soil if he intended to let the new Confederate states depart his union in peace.

“And men will tell their children,
Tho’ all other memories fade,
How they fought with Stonewall Jackson
In the old Stonewall Brigade.”
"Intended?" That assumes that Lincoln had the constitutional power to decide states entering and leaving the union. He didn't.

He made clear in his first inaugural that he would simply do his job, and not start shooting. He made it clear that if the people wanted to take up the secession issue, such as in a convention, and decide the issue either way, then he was fine with that. It was outside the purview of his constitutional responsibilities.

So to put the decision solely on Lincoln's intentions is a false assumption.
 

BuckeyeWarrior

Sergeant
Joined
Jan 1, 2020
Location
Ohio
One wonders why Lincoln wanted to keep troops on Southern soil if he intended to let the new Confederate states depart his union in peace.

“And men will tell their children,
Tho’ all other memories fade,
How they fought with Stonewall Jackson
In the old Stonewall Brigade.”
He couldn’t let the rebels just leave. Under the constitution he had absolutely no authority to determine if a state was no longer a state. This was already stated by President Buchanan. It would have also violated his oath of office.
 

NedBaldwin

Major
Joined
Feb 19, 2011
Location
California
One wonders why Lincoln wanted to keep troops on Southern soil if he intended to let the new Confederate states depart his union in peace.

“And men will tell their children,
Tho’ all other memories fade,
How they fought with Stonewall Jackson
In the old Stonewall Brigade.”
He wanted to keep them on US soil (Ft Sumter belonged to the US).
His intention was to follow federal law
 

CSA Today

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Location
Laurinburg NC
He couldn’t let the rebels just leave. Under the constitution he had absolutely no authority to determine if a state was no longer a state. This was already stated by President Buchanan. It would have also violated his oath of office.
I know Lincoln had no intention of letting the seven seceded states leave in peace, the seven Confederate States knew it. Nevertheless, there is a poster here that apparently does believe Lincoln would have let them go in peace if only the Confederate States bided their time passively and waited.
 

CSA Today

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Location
Laurinburg NC
"Intended?" That assumes that Lincoln had the constitutional power to decide states entering and leaving the union. He didn't.

He made clear in his first inaugural that he would simply do his job, and not start shooting. He made it clear that if the people wanted to take up the secession issue, such as in a convention, and decide the issue either way, then he was fine with that. It was outside the purview of his constitutional responsibilities.

So to put the decision solely on Lincoln's intentions is a false assumption.
Let me frame the question differently, do you think it would have made any difference to Lincoln who "attacked first"?
 

CSA Today

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Location
Laurinburg NC
Until attacked, he could just maintain the status quo. Once attacked, a response was needed.
I see, Lincoln wouldn't have responded had the CS not attacked. What do you think Lincoln would have done had the Confederates done nothing?

“And men will tell their children,
Tho’ all other memories fade,
How they fought with Stonewall Jackson
In the old Stonewall Brigade.”

 

Zack

Sergeant
Joined
Aug 20, 2017
Location
Los Angeles, California
I see, Lincoln wouldn't have responded had the CS not attacked. What do you think Lincoln would have done had the Confederates done nothing?

“And men will tell their children,
Tho’ all other memories fade,
How they fought with Stonewall Jackson
In the old Stonewall Brigade.”

Reframing this question slightly - in a perfect world, how would you have liked Lincoln to respond? Rather than complaining about what Lincoln did do, let us know what would have been preferable.

Let the South secede peacefully, the US collapses into two separate countries with the precedent that voluntary secession is legal and unopposed, hypothetically more states secede at some point in the future? Or states secede from the Confederacy if they decide they don't like how it's working? The South struggles with the same issues that plagued the United States under the Articles of Confederation and prompted the adoption of a Constitution?

The US never becomes a world power? The North American continent is divided by a likely hostile border? European monarchs point to yet another failed experiment in democracy to justify their authoritarianism?

And that's setting aside the issue of the perpetuation of slavery. The South continues in its desire and efforts to construct a slave empire by conquering Cuba and other parts of North America and the Caribbean?
 

NedBaldwin

Major
Joined
Feb 19, 2011
Location
California
Keep on doing what Presidents do - maintain
I see, Lincoln wouldn't have responded had the CS not attacked. What do you think Lincoln would have done had the Confederates done nothing?

“And men will tell their children,
Tho’ all other memories fade,
How they fought with Stonewall Jackson
In the old Stonewall Brigade.”

Keep doing what presidents do - maintain federal personnel and property, appoint judges and postmasters, collect and spend revenue according to the law, and wait for congress to meet at its usual time
 

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