Ami's SOA Lincoln Quote of the Day

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#81
I thought the thread was supposed to be about Lincoln quotes, I can come up with a whole bunch of Southern quotes indicating all sorts of things, but I imagine the moderators would insist they be on a thread of their own.
I would be the first to beg the moderators indulgence on this one. One quote from a Southern leader indicating that the Black Man was their equal in any way would certainly be worth the change in the original direction of the thread.
 

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#82
I would be the first to beg the moderators indulgence on this one. One quote from a Southern leader indicating that the Black Man was their equal in any way would certainly be worth the change in the original direction of the thread.
I would be interested in seeing any quote from a white man of the era proclaiming the black man to be a social equal. Perhaps Charles Sumner?
 

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#83
I would be interested in seeing any quote from a white man of the era proclaiming the black man to be a social equal. Perhaps Charles Sumner?
U.S. Representative Joshua Giddings, from Ohio, rebuking Representative Wright from Pennsylvania in the United States House of Representatives for offering an amendment to exclude blacks from the benefits of a homesteading bill:

"That gentleman has expressed his abhorrence of the colored man. By what right has he done it? Have they not fought for the liberties which he enjoys? Have they not bled that he and I may be freemen? Have they not shed their blood upon every battle-field of the Revolution? Did not they stand by General Jackson at New Orleans? ...

We have brought these people from their native land, and are we to persecute them and trample them in the dust? Is that the voice of the free representatives of the old Keystone State? But a few years ago the colored man had the right of suffrage in that State.

In my own State to-day some of its best citizens, and some of the most intelligent citizens, are men who have colored blood in their veins; they are authorized to hold offices, and to be Governors of the State; and yet, under the construction of the proposed amendment of the gentleman, they must be excluded from the benefits of this bill.

On behalf of that class of men I protest against it here and everywhere. Let them have the right to settle upon this land, and support themselves and their children."


- Representative Joshua Giddings, February 28, 1854

Source: http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llcg&fileName=033/llcg033.db&recNum=505
 
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brass napoleon

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#84
I would be interested in seeing any quote from a white man of the era proclaiming the black man to be a social equal. Perhaps Charles Sumner?
And here's Frederick Douglass, talking about white men who not only proclaimed him their equals, but treated him as such:

"While thus remembering the noble anti-slavery men and women of Rhode Island, I do not forget that I suffered much rough usage within her borders. It was like all the northern States at that time, under the influence of slave power, and often showed a proscriptive and persecuting spirit, especially upon its railways, steamboats, and in its public houses....

Wendell Phillips, James Monroe, and William White, were always dear to me for their nice feeling at this point. I have known James Monroe to pull his coat about him and crawl upon the cotton bales between decks and pass the night with me, without a murmur. Wendell Phillips would never go into a first-class car while I was forced into what was called the Jim Crow car. True men they were, who could accept welcome at no man's table where I was refused. I speak of these gentlemen, not as singular or exceptional cases, but as representatives of a large class of the early workers for the abolition of slavery."


- Source: http://docsouth.unc.edu/neh/dougl92/dougl92.html/menu.html
 

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#85
I would be interested in seeing any quote from a white man of the era proclaiming the black man to be a social equal. Perhaps Charles Sumner?
Here's an ex-slave college student, describing how his fellow white students also treated him as an equal:

"As soon as I was free, I started for a free state. When I arrived in Cincinnati, I heard of Lane Seminary, about two miles out of the city. I had for years been praying to God that my dark mind might see the light of knowledge. I asked for admission to the seminary. They pitied me and granted my request, though I knew nothing of the studies which were required for admission. I am so ignorant that I suppose it will take me two years to get up with the lowest class in the institution. But in all respects I am treated just as kindly and as much like a brother by the students, as if my skin were as white and my education as good as their own."

- James Bradley, 1834

Source: Lydia Maria Child, The Oasis, pp. 106-107​
 

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#86
I would be interested in seeing any quote from a white man of the era proclaiming the black man to be a social equal. Perhaps Charles Sumner?
The 1843 platform of the Liberty Party:

"RESOLVED, That this convention recommend to the friends of liberty in all those free states where any inequality of rights and privileges exists on account of color, to employ their utmost energies to remove all such remnants and effects of the slave system."

Source: http://alexpeak.com/twr/libertyparty/1843/

The Ohio Free Soil Party:

"The object of that party, in our mind, is the vindication of the equal rights of all men, and the protection of all in the enjoyment of those rights. We go for the repeal of all laws in this State, that make any distinction among men, on account of color, or anything else. We go for the exertion of all the constitutional power of the United States government, not only to prevent the extension of slavery, but to effect its abolition. For our part we never expect to cease our efforts as a Free Soil man, until the chains shall fall from every slave, or we cease to live. Were all our territories to-day made free, we should see no less use for our party, and should labor for its ascendancy with the same zeal we do now."

- Niles' National Register, Jan. 24, 1849

Source: http://books.google.com/books?id=bwAQAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA64&lpg=PA64
Within weeks of that announcement, they were able to achieve the repeal of most of Ohio's notorious "Black Laws" after decades on the books.
 

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#87
The 1843 platform of the Liberty Party:

"RESOLVED, That this convention recommend to the friends of liberty in all those free states where any inequality of rights and privileges exists on account of color, to employ their utmost energies to remove all such remnants and effects of the slave system."

Source: http://alexpeak.com/twr/libertyparty/1843/

The Ohio Free Soil Party:

"The object of that party, in our mind, is the vindication of the equal rights of all men, and the protection of all in the enjoyment of those rights. We go for the repeal of all laws in this State, that make any distinction among men, on account of color, or anything else. We go for the exertion of all the constitutional power of the United States government, not only to prevent the extension of slavery, but to effect its abolition. For our part we never expect to cease our efforts as a Free Soil man, until the chains shall fall from every slave, or we cease to live. Were all our territories to-day made free, we should see no less use for our party, and should labor for its ascendancy with the same zeal we do now."

- Niles' National Register, Jan. 24, 1849

Source: http://books.google.com/books?id=bwAQAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA64&lpg=PA64
Within weeks of that announcement, they were able to achieve the repeal of most of Ohio's notorious "Black Laws" after decades on the books.
I think there is a difference between promoting equals rights and promoting social equality among the races. In my opinion, Charles Sumner genuinely believed in social equality among the races as did perhaps a few others, but I have read nothing to lead me to believe it was that large a number even among the most fervent abolitionists.
 

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#88
I think there is a difference between promoting equals rights and promoting social equality among the races. In my opinion, Charles Sumner genuinely believed in social equality among the races as did perhaps a few others, but I have read nothing to lead me to believe it was that large a number even among the most fervent abolitionists.
Well, it certainly was a small (but growing) minority of the general population, but as far as "the most fervent abolitionists", Frederick Douglass, who was there and who ought to have known, disagreed with that, as quoted above: "True men they were, who could accept welcome at no man's table where I was refused. I speak of these gentlemen, not as singular or exceptional cases, but as representatives of a large class of the early workers for the abolition of slavery."
 
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#89
I would be interested in seeing any quote from a white man of the era proclaiming the black man to be a social equal. Perhaps Charles Sumner?
I didn't set the bar that high. Lincoln himself said blacks weren't social equals with whites so I couldn't expect you to find a Southern leader, of all people, who would disagree with that. No, Lincoln spoke of the God given rights as outlined in the Declaration of Independence and said that when it came to those then the black man was his equal, and the equal of every living man. So let's leave it there. Can you provide a quote from a single Southern leader who said the Black man was his equal in that respect? Or his equal in any other respect at all?

And again, I realize this is straying off the topic of Lincoln quotes so I'll ask the mods again for a little leeway and allow you a chance to provide the quote and show how much more enlightened at least one Southern leader was when compared to Lincoln.
 

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#90
I didn't set the bar that high. Lincoln himself said blacks weren't social equals with whites so I couldn't expect you to find a Southern leader, of all people, who would disagree with that. No, Lincoln spoke of the God given rights as outlined in the Declaration of Independence and said that when it came to those then the black man was his equal, and the equal of every living man. So let's leave it there. Can you provide a quote from a single Southern leader who said the Black man was his equal in that respect? Or his equal in any other respect at all?

And again, I realize this is straying off the topic of Lincoln quotes so I'll ask the mods again for a little leeway and allow you a chance to provide the quote and show how much more enlightened at least one Southern leader was when compared to Lincoln.
I don’t know where you got the idea that I said, or somehow implied that there was those among the Southern leadership or other conspicuous Southerners who advocated bestowing equal rights to blacks. Even Southern abolitionist Hinton R. Helper despised blacks. It was not a great time to be a non-white in the South or just about anywhere else in the country. When it came to rights, it wasn’t that rosy to be a woman of any race in the country as far as that went. My point in replying to a Lincoln quote was never to compare who was doing what, if anything, beyond the needs of political expediency, to advance human rights. The point was to point out Lincoln’s hypocrisy, or if you will duplicity, when it came to the racism of the day. Since you seem determine to shift the topic away from Lincoln and on to what Southerners might have said, I’ll just say this: at least Southerners didn’t mince words about race, they meant what they said, they didn’t, like Lincoln, say one thing to one crowd and a short time later say something altogether different to another crowd.
 
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#91
I don’t know where you got the idea that I said, or somehow implied that there was those among the Southern leadership or other conspicuous Southerners who advocated bestowing equal rights to blacks.
Maybe it was the Lincoln hypocrisy comment of yours in your reply 73. So let's return to that, shall we? How does your quote in reply 78 make Lincoln hypocritical?
 

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#92
Maybe it was the Lincoln hypocrisy comment of yours in your reply 73. So let's return to that, shall we? How does your quote in reply 78 make Lincoln hypocritical?
You don’t see Lincoln talking out both sides of his mouth here?

Post 79
I will say here, while upon this subject, that I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so. I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and the black races...but I hold that, notwithstanding all this, there is no reason in the world why the negro is not entitled to all the natural rights enumerated in the Declaration of Independence, the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I hold that he is as much entitled to these as the white man. I agree with Judge Douglas he is not my equal in many respects-certainly not in color, perhaps not in moral or intellectual endowment. But in the right to eat the bread, without the leave of anybody else, which his own hand earns, he is my equal and the equal of Judge Douglas, and the equal of every living man."
 

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#93
You don’t see Lincoln talking out both sides of his mouth here?

Post 79
I will say here, while upon this subject, that I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so. I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and the black races...but I hold that, notwithstanding all this, there is no reason in the world why the negro is not entitled to all the natural rights enumerated in the Declaration of Independence, the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I hold that he is as much entitled to these as the white man. I agree with Judge Douglas he is not my equal in many respects-certainly not in color, perhaps not in moral or intellectual endowment. But in the right to eat the bread, without the leave of anybody else, which his own hand earns, he is my equal and the equal of Judge Douglas, and the equal of every living man."
Not any more so than the overwhelming majority of American men in that era, in their beliefs about women. They had "no purpose to introduce political and social equality" between men and women either. Yet the vast majority of them believed that women were "entitled to all the natural rights enumerated in the Declaration of Independence, the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Why is this so hard to understand?

And regarding your post #78, I find it very interesting that you chose to stop it where you did - right before the salient point that Lincoln was driving at all along: "I do not understand that because I do not want a negro woman for a slave I must necessarily want her for a wife. My understanding is that I can just let her alone. I am now in my fiftieth year, and I certainly never have had a black woman for either a slave or a wife. So it seems to me quite possible for us to get along without making either slaves or wives of negroes." So exactly how "straight forward and honest" was it of you to leave that off?
 
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#95
You don’t see Lincoln talking out both sides of his mouth here?

Post 79
I will say here, while upon this subject, that I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so. I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and the black races...but I hold that, notwithstanding all this, there is no reason in the world why the negro is not entitled to all the natural rights enumerated in the Declaration of Independence, the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I hold that he is as much entitled to these as the white man. I agree with Judge Douglas he is not my equal in many respects-certainly not in color, perhaps not in moral or intellectual endowment. But in the right to eat the bread, without the leave of anybody else, which his own hand earns, he is my equal and the equal of Judge Douglas, and the equal of every living man."

No. But then again I've never been blessed with your imagination.
 

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#96
No. But then again I've never been blessed with your imagination.
If you can't see duplicity in your post below it's not just the imagination.

Post 79
I will say here, while upon this subject, that I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so. I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and the black races...but I hold that, notwithstanding all this, there is no reason in the world why the negro is not entitled to all the natural rights enumerated in the Declaration of Independence, the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I hold that he is as much entitled to these as the white man. I agree with Judge Douglas he is not my equal in many respects-certainly not in color, perhaps not in moral or intellectual endowment. But in the right to eat the bread, without the leave of anybody else, which his own hand earns, he is my equal and the equal of Judge Douglas, and the equal of every living man."
 

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The inclination to exchange thoughts with one another is probably an original impulse of our nature.”- Second Lecture on Discoveries and Inventions, February 11, 1859
 



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