Restricted Lincoln and Colonization

WJC

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Another bad moment showing Lincoln racist bias...
Has anyone here ever claimed Lincoln was not biased? He would have been nearly unique: as has been said here many times, virtually everyone in the antebellum United States was a racist by today's standards.
He was racist, but he also found slavery repugnant.
What made Lincoln admirable was the evolution of his views, his eventual commitment to end slavery altogether and his willingness to extend the full rights of citizenship to those freed Black slaves.
If one wishes to find fault in Lincoln there are any number of points in his life one can cite, but to fully appreciate him, one must consider the entirety of his life.
 

Viper21

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What about Lincoln's actions? Lincoln liberated slaves not Davis. Lincoln gave black American's citizenship not Davis. Lincoln wanted to contain slavery even before he became president not Davis. In other words "actions speak louder then words".
Leftyhunter
You keep quoting this post of mine, even though you never answered my question, posed 7 months ago. Are you saying Lincoln was not a racist..?

Furthermore, I thought this thread was about Lincoln not Davis. Also, Lincoln didn't give citizenship to Black Americans. He was dead before that happened.
 

WJC

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he was never a passionate anti-slavery man. He was just a political opportunist when it came to slavery...
Maybe, Maybe not. However, whatever his motives, he made eventual, nation-wide emancipation possible. Beyond that, it is unclear how he would have dealt with the many unanticipated repercussions of emancipation. We can only speculate.
 

5fish

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There's a "cult of Lincoln"?
I was aware many abhor Lincoln, while others admire him. Little did I know that there was a "cult of Lincoln".

Oh yes, there is... let's call it the Lincoln Admiration Society but they have all gone to ground after post #43 on this thread was posted... Lincoln pursued his colonization policy long after the EP was signed... all in secret...
 

WJC

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Lincoln pursued his colonization policy long after the EP was signed... all in secret...
Thanks for your response.
I don't believe it was a secret that Lincoln was still considering colonization as one of the possible options as he wrestled with what to do with the newly-freed slaves.
We tend to ignore or understate the immensity of this problem.
 

leftyhunter

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Come on man..... you're dodging the elephant in the room. Don't give an inch eh..? lol My comment was specifically about Lincoln.

Are you saying that Lincoln was not racist ..?
Co
You keep quoting this post of mine, even though you never answered my question, posed 7 months ago. Are you saying Lincoln was not a racist..?

Furthermore, I thought this thread was about Lincoln not Davis. Also, Lincoln didn't give citizenship to Black Americans. He was dead before that happened.
If we criticize Lincoln for being a racist isn't it fair to compare him to Davis? Who pushed the 13th Amendment thru Congress? Did Davis order the Confederate Army to fre slaves?
Actions speak louder then words. Did Davis after the Civil War support black political equality? Former Confederate general's Longstreet, Forrest and Beauregard did but not Davis.
Lincoln may of done more for black equality but a Confederate supporter murdered him.
Leftyhunter
 

leftyhunter

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Oh yes, there is... let's call it the Lincoln Admiration Society but they have all gone to ground after post #43 on this thread was posted... Lincoln pursued his colonization policy long after the EP was signed... all in secret...
Why is it so terrible that Lincoln favored giving at least some American blacks greater opportunity if they had an independent nation overseas?
Even some American Jews who were not subject to de jure discrimination as blacks were thought that an independent Jewish nation would be preferable to living in the United States.
Leftyhunter
 

JPK Huson 1863

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Oh yes, there is... let's call it the Lincoln Admiration Society but they have all gone to ground after post #43 on this thread was posted... Lincoln pursued his colonization policy long after the EP was signed... all in secret...


' All gone to ground ' would mean anyone who admires Lincoln is hiding in shame? The thing is, there's just no refuting made-up stuff. There's simply no need for a ' Lincoln Admiration Society ' . No one is going to gasp, refuse to use pennies or visit the plethora of towns named Lincoln, avoid using any road named for him or show up at the Lincoln Memorial in mass protest, and A few determined loathers of Lincoln will not convince anyone his contributions were less than they were.

It's just silly. You know, we have so much terrific History to explore from the era. It was an awful, barbaric war. As is usual for the human race, men and women emerged who were challenged by the worst and found where their best lived. It's these people we should be spending our time celebrating- lessons in hope. No matter how dark it gets, people provide the light.

If you do not choose to believe Abraham Lincoln was one of them, it's your opinion- free to have those because a lot of Americans died for that principle. How you use that freedom is up to you. What no one is free to do is instruct anyone else all about what their opinion must be.
 

Viper21

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Co

If we criticize Lincoln for being a racist isn't it fair to compare him to Davis? Who pushed the 13th Amendment thru Congress? Did Davis order the Confederate Army to fre slaves?
Actions speak louder then words. Did Davis after the Civil War support black political equality? Former Confederate general's Longstreet, Forrest and Beauregard did but not Davis.
Lincoln may of done more for black equality but a Confederate supporter murdered him.
Leftyhunter
I probably should've just stayed off the merry-go-round but, I dont' understand, "Co"..? Is that an abbreviation ? A code..? I don't get it.

Also, I'm guessing you are under the impression the 13th amendment gave Blacks citizenship ..?

It was the Civil Rights Act of 1866 (and later 14th amendment) enacted April 9, 1866, "was the first United States Federal Law to define citizenship and affirm that all citizens are equally protected by the law". Introduced in January 1866.
 

CSA Today

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' All gone to ground ' would mean anyone who admires Lincoln is hiding in shame? The thing is, there's just no refuting made-up stuff. There's simply no need for a ' Lincoln Admiration Society ' . No one is going to gasp, refuse to use pennies or visit the plethora of towns named Lincoln, avoid using any road named for him or show up at the Lincoln Memorial in mass protest, and A few determined loathers of Lincoln will not convince anyone his contributions were less than they were.

It's just silly. You know, we have so much terrific History to explore from the era. It was an awful, barbaric war. As is usual for the human race, men and women emerged who were challenged by the worst and found where their best lived. It's these people we should be spending our time celebrating- lessons in hope. No matter how dark it gets, people provide the light.

If you do not choose to believe Abraham Lincoln was one of them, it's your opinion- free to have those because a lot of Americans died for that principle. How you use that freedom is up to you. What no one is free to do is instruct anyone else all about what their opinion must be.

If a lot of Americans died for that principle a lot of them died in vain.
 

uaskme

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Why is it so terrible that Lincoln favored giving at least some American blacks greater opportunity if they had an independent nation overseas?
Even some American Jews who were not subject to de jure discrimination as blacks were thought that an independent Jewish nation would be preferable to living in the United States.
Leftyhunter

Blacks were being Colonized from the North. So yes we must admit the Prevailing Yankee Negrophobia. Lincoln had seen Negros hanging from Lamppost in NYC during the Nathaniel Gordon Trial in 1862 and the Race Riots in 1863. He knew the backlash against the EP in the North and West. So it is understandable he continued the Colonization schemes.

Nevertheless, "on December 1, 1862 in his second annual message, President Lincoln presented a plan for gradual, compensated emancipation coupled with voluntary expatraition after freedom. This was in the face of claims by the Democratic Party "used three phrases to sum up the alleged consequences of emancipation: 'racial amalgamation,' Africanization of America' and 'Free Negroism." In response "242 black residents" of California "petitioned Congress in 1862 to settle them in a country where their color would not be a badge of degradation. It seemed to be the policy of the state and the nation, they commended, to discourage the increase of persons of color in their midst and to use every legal means to induce those among them to emigrate." The Deepest South by Gerald Horne pp 175
 

leftyhunter

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Blacks were being Colonized from the North. So yes we must admit the Prevailing Yankee Negrophobia. Lincoln had seen Negros hanging from Lamppost in NYC during the Nathaniel Gordon Trial in 1862 and the Race Riots in 1863. He knew the backlash against the EP in the North and West. So it is understandable he continued the Colonization schemes.

Nevertheless, "on December 1, 1862 in his second annual message, President Lincoln presented a plan for gradual, compensated emancipation coupled with voluntary expatraition after freedom. This was in the face of claims by the Democratic Party "used three phrases to sum up the alleged consequences of emancipation: 'racial amalgamation,' Africanization of America' and 'Free Negroism." In response "242 black residents" of California "petitioned Congress in 1862 to settle them in a country where their color would not be a badge of degradation. It seemed to be the policy of the state and the nation, they commended, to discourage the increase of persons of color in their midst and to use every legal means to induce those among them to emigrate." The Deepest South by Gerald Horne pp 175
Yes there was violence in the North against blacks during the Civil War. However to be fair and balanced let us compare the violence directed against blacks in the Confederacy during the Civil War and see what side killed, raped and enslaved the most. What side gad more black combat soldier's?
Leftyhunter
 

leftyhunter

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I probably should've just stayed off the merry-go-round but, I dont' understand, "Co"..? Is that an abbreviation ? A code..? I don't get it.

Also, I'm guessing you are under the impression the 13th amendment gave Blacks citizenship ..?

It was the Civil Rights Act of 1866 (and later 14th amendment) enacted April 9, 1866, "was the first United States Federal Law to define citizenship and affirm that all citizens are equally protected by the law". Introduced in January 1866.
Leftyhunter
Co is just a typo. I never said the 13th Amendment granted citizenship. Logic dictates first slavery has to be ended. We can't criticize Lincoln for not introducing the 14th Amendment since Lincoln was assassinated by Booth a Confederate supporter.
If we throw stones at Lincoln for being a racist leader wht do we givw Davis a pass or was Davis less racist?
Leftyhunter
 
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