Restricted Lincoln and Colonization

Canadian

Sergeant
Joined
Jul 24, 2017
Lincoln could not have been elected unless he were a “moderate” on slavery. Chase or Seward might have won the Republican nomination if they had not associated a few too many times with abolitionists, deemed “radical” by most of the North. Abolitionists were a small, rather reviled minority in the 19th century in a country where slave states had a disproportionate amount of power.

I imagine that Lincoln, as a man of his time, might have been influenced by beliefs that the two races should not mix (although they had very often under coercion.). He was a superb politician, though, adept at reading the public and leading them a bit further than they might have gone otherwise.
 

Mike Griffith

Sergeant
Joined
Jun 22, 2014
I think it's been pretty well documented that Lincoln grew on the issues of race and emancipation. Lincoln hated slavery from an early age. People, like DiLorenzo, who claim that Lincoln really did not care about ending slavery are ignoring a large body of evidence to the contrary. Lincoln tried very hard to stay within at least the spirit of the law when he began to act against slavery during the war. The stubborn leaders of the Border States, who refused to support his plan for compensated emancipation, pushed him to the conclusion that he needed to push for a constitutional amendment to abolish slavery--and to abolish it suddenly, with no grace period, no compensation, no nothing.

Lincoln hated slavery, but he was willing to leave slavery undisturbed where it already existed in order to maintain the Union. In this he showed his conservative leanings. Critics attacked Lincoln for not including the Union states in the Emancipation Proclamation, but Lincoln cogently replied that if he had done that, he would have far exceeded his constitutional authority and would have set the precedent that a president could void any law in any state whenever he felt the situation justified it. He viewed the maintenance of the Union as being more important than ending slavery. But, when the war gave him the opportunity to end the institution once and for all in one quick stroke, he took it.
 
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uaskme

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Nov 9, 2016
Location
SE Tennessee
Lincoln was a anti-Abolitionist, pre War. Post War probably.

Colonization was an alternative to Abolition. Some so called Abolitionist rejected the idea of leaving the Black Population to live was the Whites. Thought Blacks were a degraded Race and though the U. S. Should be reserved for the White Population only. Some Abolitionist believed in Immediatism, such as Garrison. So it depends on what definition of Abolition you believe.

Slave Owners supported Colonization because it got rid of Free Black, who they say as a Threat to Slavery. So Colonization attracted AntiSlavery theorist who didn’t want Immediatism and Slave Owners alike. Also why it was rejected by the Garrisons.
 

5fish

Captain
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Location
Central Florida
"You can rob me, you can starve me, you can beat me, you can kill me...,
Just don't bore me
." -- Gunny Highway, in the movie, Heartbreak Ridge.

*disables the automatic alerts that come with posting on a thread*

couldn't listen. But now, better late than never... sayonara to this thread.

I am shocked and disappointed by all of your responses. I have given you all information about Lincoln I know none of you knew until today. I think you all would be excited about this new info... I should have known because even historians like James McPherson chose to ignore it too, The cult of Lincoln...
 

unionblue

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Member of the Year
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Location
Ocala, FL (as of December, 2015).
Lincoln was a anti-Abolitionist, pre War. Post War probably.

Pretty hard to get a quote or opinion from the man on your assumption, since he was murdered prior to Post War history.


Colonization was an alternative to Abolition. Some so called Abolitionist rejected the idea of leaving the Black Population to live was the Whites. Thought Blacks were a degraded Race and though the U. S. Should be reserved for the White Population only. Some Abolitionist believed in Immediatism, such as Garrison. So it depends on what definition of Abolition you believe.

Correct.

Slave Owners supported Colonization because it got rid of Free Black, who they say as a Threat to Slavery.

So far, so good.

So Colonization attracted AntiSlavery theorist who didn’t want Immediatism and Slave Owners alike. Also why it was rejected by the Garrisons.

Wow! So little to disagree with!

Except figuring out what a dead Lincoln would decide Post War.
 

unionblue

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Member of the Year
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Location
Ocala, FL (as of December, 2015).
I am shocked and disappointed by all of your responses. I have given you all information about Lincoln I know none of you knew until today. I think you all would be excited about this new info... I should have known because even historians like James McPherson chose to ignore it too, The cult of Lincoln...

You give nothing, you get nothing in return.
 

5fish

Captain
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Location
Central Florida
My first impulse would be to free all the slaves, and send them to Liberia, to their own native land."

It is obvious Lincoln made a great effort to bring colonization to fruition. One can see the list of nations he sent inquiries to and even made a treaty with the Netherlands...

In some respects she certainly is not my equal;

This one line is racist so it means little else what came after this line...

The enterprise is a difficult one; but ``when there is a will there is a way;'' and what colonization needs most is a hearty will. Will springs from the two elements of moral sense and self-interest. Let us be brought to believe it is morally right, and, at the same time, favorable to, or, at least, not against, our interest, to transfer the African to his native clime, and we shall find a way to do it, however great the task may be. The children of Israel, to such numbers as to include four hundred thousand fighting men, went out of Egyptian bondage in a body.

You give us what Lincoln thought it would take to achieve the goal of Colonization of freed slaves. You can see Lincoln put in a great effort to find a place in the world for his colonization plans. He went as far as to complete a treaty with another nation that is ambitious endevor on Lincoln's part... Lincoln was doing all this after he signed the Emancipation Proclamation. If you read what I posted the negotiations with the Netherlands was done in secret... It seems Lincoln had the hearty will he spoke about...
 
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Rebforever

Lt. Colonel
Joined
Oct 26, 2012
Frederick Douglass, a gifted African American writer and activist who knew Lincoln, characterized him in a speech delivered in 1876:109

"In his interest, in his association, in his habits of thought, and in his prejudices, he was a white man. He was preeminently the white man's President, entirely devoted to the welfare of the white man. He was ready and willing at any time during the first years of his administration to deny, postpone, and sacrifice the rights of humanity in the colored people, to promote the welfare of the white people of this country."

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v13/v13n5p-4_Morgan.html
 

Rebforever

Lt. Colonel
Joined
Oct 26, 2012
Allan Nevins, one of this century's most prolific and acclaimed historians of US history, summed up Lincoln's view of the complex issue of race, and his vision of America's future:110

"His conception ran beyond the mere liberation of four million colored folk; it implied a far-reaching alteration of American society, industry, and government. A gradual planned emancipation, a concomitant transportation of hundreds of thousands and perhaps even millions of people overseas, a careful governmental nursing of the new colonies, and a payment of unprecedented sums to the section thus deprived of its old labor supply -- this scheme carried unprecedented implications."

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v13/v13n5p-4_Morgan.html
 

5fish

Captain
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Location
Central Florida
You give nothing, you get nothing in return.

No, you refused to appreciate it but that is okay greater historians refuse to appreciate it as well...

Did you like the part were the one Historian misspells Suriname... over and over...

Charles Wesley, writing in 1919, stated flatly and without citation that Secretary of State William Seward had rejected the 1862 Dutch colonization proposal. Strangely, Wesley misspells “Suriname” as “Swinam,” an error that could be forgiven as a typographical mistake if it were not repeated in the article as the patently absurd “Netherland Colony of St. Swinam.”

This Historian,...

Later articles hardly did more. In 1952, in an article on colonization in Chiriqui, Panama, Paul J. Scheips listed the competing European colonization proposals that came to Lincoln’s desk. Without citing a primary source, he dismissed Seward’s interaction with the Europeans on colonization: “Nothing very important resulted from this effort.

This too...

The litany of errors continued in 1969, when Robert L. Gold concluded that all the European powers had declined Seward’s “offer...

Kind of funny all these historians(even the modern ones) ignored Lincoln avid desire to create a free slaved colony...
 

Canadian

Sergeant
Joined
Jul 24, 2017
I think it's been pretty well documented that Lincoln grew on the issues of race and emancipation. Lincoln hated slavery from an early age. People, like DiLorenzo, who claim that Lincoln really did not care about ending slavery are ignoring a large body of evidence to the contrary. Lincoln tried very hard to stay within at least the spirit of the law when he began to act against slavery during the war. The stubborn leaders of the Border States, who refused to support his plan for compensated emancipation, pushed him to the conclusion that he needed to push for a constitutional amendment to abolish slavery--and to abolish it suddenly, with no grace period, no compensation, no nothing.

Lincoln hated slavery, but he was willing to leave slavery undisturbed where it already existed in order to maintain the Union. In this he showed his conservative leanings. Critics attacked Lincoln for not including the Union states in the Emancipation Proclamation, but Lincoln cogently replied that if he had done that, he would have far exceeded his constitutional authority and would have set the precedent that a president could void any law in any state whenever he felt the situation justified it. He viewed the maintenance of the Union as being more important than ending slavery. But, when the war gave him the opportunity to end the institution once and for all in one quick stroke, he took it.
Very well put.
 

leftyhunter

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
los angeles ca
What about when taken into context with blatant racist comments ?
Vs the more enlightened policy of Davis and the KKK? Vs the fact that it took the federal govt to end Jim Crow laws plus the U.S. Supreme Court decsions such has Loving v. Virginia?
Leftyhunter
 

5fish

Captain
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Location
Central Florida
DiLorenzo's claim that Lincoln really did not care about blacks or slavery is invalid.

Yet Lincoln was not a fan either...

George Mason University in Fairfax, Virginia, makes the case that Lincoln was more committed to colonizing black people than previously thought. The book, Colonization After Emancipation, is based in part on newly uncovered documents that authors Phillip Magness and Sebastian Page found at the British National Archives in Kew and in the US National Archives.

A speech at the White House...

It claims, among other things, that in 1862 Lincoln urged a White House audience of "free blacks" to leave the US and settle in Central America. He told them: "For the sake of your race, you should sacrifice something of your present comfort for the purpose of being as grand in that respect as the white people." He went on to say that those who envisioned a permanent life in the US were being "selfish" and he promoted Central America as an ideal location "especially because of the similarity of climate with your native land – thus being suited to your physical condition".

Here..

The new book suggests Lincoln continued to support colonization, engaging in secret diplomacy with the British to establish a colony in British Honduras. Among the records found at Kew is an 1863 order from Lincoln granting a British agent permission to recruit volunteers for a colony.

I will give Lincoln and out...

Dr Magness said that nobody can claim definitive knowledge of Lincoln's views, especially on a topic as complex as race relations. "He never had a chance to complete his vision. Lincoln's racial views were evolving at the time of his death," he said.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...p-set-up-colony-for-freed-slaves-2233616.html

 
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leftyhunter

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
los angeles ca
Hey, please stay on topic ... Lincoln's desire shipped freedmen off to colonies...
Yet Lincoln never forced any black person to leave the United States. Lincoln did not submit legislation to pay for colonization .
The United States never enacted final colonization.
Yes Lincoln toyed with the idea so what? In the 1920s many blacks supported Marcus Garvey's efforts to establish an independent American black nation.
Was Davis less racist then Lincoln in trying to expand and preserve slavery?
Leftyhunter
 

leftyhunter

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
los angeles ca
What about when taken into context with blatant racist comments ?
What about Lincoln's actions? Lincoln liberated slaves not Davis. Lincoln gave black American's citizenship not Davis. Lincoln wanted to contain slavery even before he became president not Davis. In other words "actions speak louder then words".
Leftyhunter
 
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