Let’s see your CW lithographs and prints

Pete Longstreet

First Sergeant
Forum Host
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Location
Hartford, CT
"I'll be leaving within the hour"

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CSA Bond with Jackson's picture:

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Nice bond!
The bond below is a counterfeit Confederate bond that came from the Coutts Bank hoard in London that I purchased as such back in the early 1990's. Beginning in 1879, rumors started floating in Britain that the Federal government was going to assume the Confederate bond debt even though the 14th Amendment prohibited such and transplanted Confederates such as Judah P. Benjamin, who was practicing law and living in England, warned that it was not going to ever happen. Speculators in Britain began to purchase legitimate issued Confederate bonds for $20 gold for every $1000 face value. Long story short... Confederate bonds from Southerners began pouring in to the bond holder committees in London and someone got ahold of unissued Confederate bonds and completed them with fictitious or forged signatures and dates and sent them off to London. As the supply of real and forged bonds began to dry up, counterfeiters in the Netherlands began producing a counterfeit version of the February 20, 1863, 7% "Stonewall Jackson" $1000 bond on pink paper, with fake, incorrect type ink signatures and dates. The counterfeiters soon ran out of pink rag paper so they turned to plain white wood pulp paper and added "Second" or "Third " series to the bonds to alleviate any questions as to why the paper was not pink. Almost $15 million in face value of these counterfeit bonds were sold to the committees in London. In 1885, when it became clear that the United States was not going to assume the Confederate bond debt, about a third of the bonds were returned to their depositors and the remainder were stored in London's Coutts Bank vaults where over the years the bonds became covered in coal dust and rotted from the acidity of the paper until 1982 when the bank returned 21,000 bonds to descendants of the original depositors and the remaining 87,000 were purchased by a large U. S. auction firm that cleaned the bonds in a bathtub, pressed them, and the ones that survived the "conservation" ordeal were sold to the general public.

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Pete Longstreet

First Sergeant
Forum Host
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Location
Hartford, CT
Nice bond!
The bond below is a counterfeit Confederate bond that came from the Coutts Bank hoard in London that I purchased as such back in the early 1990's. Beginning in 1879, rumors started floating in Britain that the Federal government was going to assume the Confederate bond debt even though the 14th Amendment prohibited such and transplanted Confederates such as Judah P. Benjamin, who was practicing law and living in England, warned that it was not going to ever happen. Speculators in Britain began to purchase legitimate issued Confederate bonds for $20 gold for every $1000 face value. Long story short... Confederate bonds from Southerners began pouring in to the bond holder committees in London and someone got ahold of unissued Confederate bonds and completed them with fictitious or forged signatures and dates and sent them off to London. As the supply of real and forged bonds began to dry up, counterfeiters in the Netherlands began producing a counterfeit version of the February 20, 1863, 7% "Stonewall Jackson" $1000 bond on pink paper, with fake, incorrect type ink signatures and dates. The counterfeiters soon ran out of pink rag paper so they turned to plain white wood pulp paper and added "Second" or "Third " series to the bonds to alleviate any questions as to why the paper was not pink. Almost $15 million in face value of these counterfeit bonds were sold to the committees in London. In 1885, when it became clear that the United States was not going to assume the Confederate bond debt, about a third of the bonds were returned to their depositers and the remainder were stored in London's Coutts Bank vaults where over the years the bonds became covered in coal dust and rotted from the acidity of the paper until 1982 when the bank returned 21,000 bonds to descendants of the original depositors and the remaining 87,000 were purchased by a large U. S. auction firm that cleaned in a bathtub, pressed them, and the ones that survived the "conservation" ordeal were sold to the general public.

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Wow! Thank you for that information. I never knew that. I honestly don't know the history of where this came from. It was an ebay purchase. Although it does have a pinkish tint to it. Any thoughts?
 
Wow! Thank you for that information. I never knew that. I honestly don't know the history of where this came from. It was an ebay purchase. Although it does have a pinkish tint to it. Any thoughts?
It looks to be the real deal. What is the date it was issued? That should be on the back of the bond. Your bond has the correct signature of Charles A Rose as Register of the Treasury for the pink colored bond whose serial numbers are between 71 and 39361. That serial numbered group of bonds were issued between July 28, 1863 and January 1, 1864. Robert Tyler, the son of former U.S. President John Tyler, also signed as Register, some of the $1000 pink Jackson bonds in the same serial number range.
 

Pete Longstreet

First Sergeant
Forum Host
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Location
Hartford, CT
It looks to be the real deal. What is the date it was issued? That should be on the back of the bond. Your bond has the correct signature of Charles A Rose as Register of the Treasury for the pink colored bond whose serial numbers are between 71 and 39361. That serial numbered group of bonds were issued between July 28, 1863 and January 1, 1864. Robert Tyler, the son of former U.S. President John Tyler, also signed as Register, some of the $1000 pink Jackson bonds in the same serial number range.
I've never removed it from its frame, so I'm not sure about the date. I will remove it and check. Now I'm very curious... I will update you with what I find.
 
I've never removed it from its frame, so I'm not sure about the date. I will remove it and check. Now I'm very curious... I will update you with what I find.
Just remove the back of the frame carefully so you don't wrinkle or damage the bond. The back should have the date of issuance and possibly a stamping of where it was issued. Bonds issued in the Trans Mississippi Dept. usually are worth more.
 

Upon further checking on the issuance date of the serial number ranges that your bond falls in, they were issued on two dates, July 28, 1863 AND January 1, 1864; not from July 28, 1863 through January 1, 1864 as I had previously stated. The Confederate bond book does not break down the serial number to one of the two dates on the Stonewall Jackson bonds which your particular pink bond is known as a Ball #241 to collectors. The bond is supposed to have one coupon (January 1, 1865) missing due to redemption. The Confederate government was fleeing to Europe and Mexico by the time the July 1, 1865 coupon could be redeemed. The slightly rarer Ball #241 Jackson bond will have all of its coupons while many #241's will have more coupons missing where sellers cut them off and sell them separately on various auction sites trying to pass the coupons off as "Confederate Bonds."
 

Pete Longstreet

First Sergeant
Forum Host
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Location
Hartford, CT
Upon further checking on the issuance date of the serial number ranges that your bond falls in, they were issued on two dates, July 28, 1863 AND January 1, 1864; not from July 28, 1863 through January 1, 1864 as I had previously stated. The Confederate bond book does not break down the serial number to one of the two dates on the Stonewall Jackson bonds which your particular pink bond is known as a Ball #241 to collectors. The bond is supposed to have one coupon (January 1, 1865) missing due to redemption. The Confederate government was fleeing to Europe and Mexico by the time the July 1, 1865 coupon could be redeemed. The slightly rarer Ball #241 Jackson bond will have all of its coupons while many #241's will have more coupons missing where sellers cut them off and sell them separately on various auction sites trying to pass the coupons off as "Confederate Bonds."
Great info, I appreciate it. I really didn't know anything about it... I thought it would be cool to have and it was fairly cheap on ebay. Is there any value to these?
 
Great info, I appreciate it. I really didn't know anything about it... I thought it would be cool to have and it was fairly cheap on ebay. Is there any value to these?
I really haven't kept up with the prices since I sold off my collection about 10 or so years ago. The Stonewall Jackson bond has always been one of the most popular selling bonds just because it features Jackson. I see that currently on Ebay that there is one just like your bond (Ball #241) with only the January 1, 1865 coupon missing with a Buy It Now price of $349.95 while there is a second Ball #241 with 4 missing coupons that the seller is asking a starting bid of $135.00 or best offer. If someone wants a Jackson bond and isn't concerned with 3 coupons that should still be part of the bond are missing, that one could be a good deal although it will never have the value as the same bond with all coupons or only the one missing coupon that had been redeemed during the war.
 
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Here's a copy of Alfred Waud's sketch of Confederate Prisons. I never got around to framing it yet. Oh, are all the Coutts Bank Hoard counterfeit?
Many were actually unissued Confederate bonds that had been filled in and signed with fictitious serial numbers and signatures as well as outright counterfeits made up in the Netherlands but some original, legitimate bonds were among the hoard.
 

Polloco

Captain
Joined
Sep 15, 2018
Location
South Texas
I often wondered why that sketch of Waud's had that odd shape to it instead of being squared.Was that just the way the piece of paper was at the time of his drawing or was the original damaged in some way? Scarcity of whole sheets, maybe? There's got to be a story behind the upper right hand corner missing.
 
Earlier a "bond book" was mentioned , what might the title to that book be?
I have the 1st edition and was unaware that a 2nd edition had been released but then, I've been out of CSA bond collecting for over 10 years.

 
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